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> Why are people like you so damn negative about this and so deliberately intent in disrupting society when it's in such a state of stress? Why are so many of y

> Why are people like you so damn negative about this and so deliberately intent in disrupting society when it's in such a state of stress? Why are so many of you so intent in trying to undermine and sabotage the rest of us when we're doing our darndest to try and protect ourselves from this cursed disease? It is pretty simple, actually. When facing a critical situation one need to (A) do as much as possible to rectify it, and (B) don't do anything that counter- or non-productive in the context. In other words, all resources must be thrown into useful action and none into useless. People are generally not bad judges of what is entirely counterproductive. No-one is wearing the seatbelts while riding the bicycle, or wearing condom outside of specific situation, "just in case" they may not have time to put it on. To "us" - I think I may identify with your "people like you" - the stuff from (B) is a sign that situation is not that critical, if we still can afford being frivolous. Remember, trust, goodwill and compliance are resources just like everything else. So, in case of this cursed disease we had the following measures implemented, among many: - 9-5 curfew in VIC, AU, summarily for 5 or 6 months out of the last 20. I'm sensing that you may be familiar with that. - Mandatory face coverings even when solo walking in the middle of nowhere. According to Premier, "we cannot afford to discuss the alternative, too esoteric" - 5km limit of movement. So one couldn't go for a beach walk with kids, but junkies could go to the city's "injection room" because it is "essential medical care". All the above was imposed with total confidence ("You cannot argue with super-computer!" - literal quote from the Premier), backed by riot police with rubber bullets. And then fought tooth and nail in the court to not reveal the "health advice" behind it, because, apparently, it is "not in the public interest". In the absence of the explanation about how the above contribute to disease protection it is not clear for "us" why it is on "us" to keep patience and be "considerate", but not on the "authorities" to do their job and think about outcome of their actions. I cannot imagine a malady that can be meaningfully alleviated with curfew or solo mask wearing. I cannot reason about lives saved by my family not going for a remote bushwalk. I can imagine that such things may be useful for intimidation and humiliation - not a good way to foster trust, isn't it? I, personally, would be more receptive to authorities' calls if they listened and, maybe, did not do things which are openly hostile and otherwise useless. You know, if they are "reasonable" and "considerate"!

hilbert42 5y ago
I'm not disagreeing one iota, Australia could hardly have made a worse job of COVID than if it had deliberately tried with Victoria, NSW and the Prime Minister being the prime culprits. Reckon there's little point in regurgitating the crap all over again as we both know exactly what's happened/happening. Nevertheless, read the section of my reply to Ls15 (below) about my hapless efforts to get vaccinated (it'll be all too familiar). I'm damn fed up with being constantly lectured at to get my booster shot and the message being made worse—rubbed in like salt in a wound—when in the next breath I'm then told that the State's vaccination centre had 50,000 spare places or whatever the number was which were not taken up—only to find that I'm still ineligible because of the ridiculous four-month rule. Any other time a four-months interval is probably OK but not with Omicron on the loose. And having only AZ shots with Omicron about is essentially equivalent to being unvaccinated. (No doubt you've likely seen the HN story where Israel has said that with Omicron four shots doesn't seem to fully to the job.) Stupid bastards, some of them (the decision-makers) couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag on the deck of a sinking ship. That said, many of those who are trying to pick up bits are not only working overly hard to do so, but also their situation means that they are often overly exposed to the virus. The people I really feel sorry are the overworked medical workers. I'm damn glad that I'm not in that profession. "...summarily for 5 or 6 months out of the last 20. I'm sensing that you may be familiar with that." Right, I do, the only effective outcome of your incarceration seems to be that you'll get into the Guinness Book of Records. Not much of a compensation is it? Your sense is correct, I'm from the Emerald City, but it's been anything but emerald over the past year or two.
- aakresearch 5y ago
  Wow, I find myself agreeing with every bit in your post. How these people managed in one breath to piss off their supporters and opponents alike is astonishing. Squandering their obligation to support people, at the same time insisting on performative dances... Do they think they gain votes this way? Sad thing that they very well may be. > I'm from the Emerald City, but it's been anything but emerald over the past year or two. Just like Melbourne is not "the most livable" anymore. We are from the sewer fields on the opposite side of this "blessed" city. Emerald was once an enviable place to be, now the whole Lucky Country seems to be gone to sewers. If 15 years ago we knew what we know now about Au, we'd never set foot here. We had won GC lottery a few years ago but decided to let the application lapse - biggest regret of my life now, we could just fly off to New Hampshire :) Maybe we can find way to an armistice, a compromise of sorts. I appreciate your responses in this thread very much. I feel sorry for your troubles with booster. I've heard just today that interval has been shortened to 3 months and they are open to shortening even more. I support your way of life, of tackling this problem and have no right to dictate or judge. I cannot support mandates under any circumstances, though. I also do not understand the desire to be boosted often, given that it has been demonstrated only marginally useful past certain point, but that's me. I believe the govt (mis)places too much faith and moral emphasis on bureaucratic rules. They are scared to admit their mistakes so much that they are trying to pitch people against each other. I can relay the personal anecdote. Something cold-like had swiped through our family here in December, with some rather unusual (for common cold) aspects pointing that it may have been Omicron. A non-event overall, but maybe it wasn't covid. Most of our extended family is in Eastern Europe. As Eastern as Europe goes, given that Russia is arguably considered Asia. My elderly in-laws and in-law siblings had Alpha. Some have been hospitalized. My parents had Delta couple of months ago. Although they usually freak out over every sniffle, this episode was surprisingly "meh" in comparison. Many, many other relatives and acquaintances had Alpha or Delta, of varying age and comorbidities, some had it easier and some harder, but ultimately all have dodged the bullet and recovered. So this is one thing that largely informs my perception. Interestingly, their president was often cited for "downplaying" and lack of lockdowns. I do hate the guy, he is criminal in every aspect, but (probably) because he does not need to worry about political points or votes (he can fudge as much of votes as he wishes), the overall response has been much more balanced, without unnecessary terrorizing, fearmongering or mandates. President largely distanced himself from the issue, the health agencies were left to do their job and as a result testing, tracing and isolation was pretty swift, early treatment protocols enabled and vaccines amply available to everyone who wanted. Also, "sauna and vodka" may not be a sound medical advice, but won't hurt either :). So, the situation on the ground is quite different from how it was portrayed. By contrast, in AU (and almost everywhere) politicians hijacked the response and busted it completely. They also managed to kill all joy of living. PM has made a complete mockery of a leader, not a single word or action from him had any weight. Premiers have revealed their absolutely worst side as Neo-feudals chasing popularity with peasants. In this situation my ability to reason is completely frozen, risk perception is distorted and the saddest of all, I don't see how this crisis is going to be resolved for better. All pointers are down :( And maybe to bring my response here into "on-topic". Djokovic may have made an admin mistake on a form, but ultimately he was sent off not because of this. So, to me it doesn't look like a principled stance of a govt, but rather an arbitrary whim. They said that they did not assess the counterfactual, nor they have to - how "smart" is that, even if legal? If they can do it to the only person who could challenge them in court, I'm terrified what they can do to my family.

hilbert42 5y ago

I'm not disagreeing one iota, Australia could hardly have made a worse job of COVID than if it had deliberately tried with Victoria, NSW and the Prime Minister being the prime culprits. Reckon there's little point in regurgitating the crap all over again as we both know exactly what's happened/happening. Nevertheless, read the section of my reply to Ls15 (below) about my hapless efforts to get vaccinated (it'll be all too familiar). I'm damn fed up with being constantly lectured at to get my booster shot and the message being made worse—rubbed in like salt in a wound—when in the next breath I'm then told that the State's vaccination centre had 50,000 spare places or whatever the number was which were not taken up—only to find that I'm still ineligible because of the ridiculous four-month rule. Any other time a four-months interval is probably OK but not with Omicron on the loose. And having only AZ shots with Omicron about is essentially equivalent to being unvaccinated. (No doubt you've likely seen the HN story where Israel has said that with Omicron four shots doesn't seem to fully to the job.) Stupid bastards, some of them (the decision-makers) couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag on the deck of a sinking ship. That said, many of those who are trying to pick up bits are not only working overly hard to do so, but also their situation means that they are often overly exposed to the virus. The people I really feel sorry are the overworked medical workers. I'm damn glad that I'm not in that profession. "...summarily for 5 or 6 months out of the last 20. I'm sensing that you may be familiar with that." Right, I do, the only effective outcome of your incarceration seems to be that you'll get into the Guinness Book of Records. Not much of a compensation is it? Your sense is correct, I'm from the Emerald City, but it's been anything but emerald over the past year or two.

aakresearch 5y ago
Wow, I find myself agreeing with every bit in your post. How these people managed in one breath to piss off their supporters and opponents alike is astonishing. Squandering their obligation to support people, at the same time insisting on performative dances... Do they think they gain votes this way? Sad thing that they very well may be. > I'm from the Emerald City, but it's been anything but emerald over the past year or two. Just like Melbourne is not "the most livable" anymore. We are from the sewer fields on the opposite side of this "blessed" city. Emerald was once an enviable place to be, now the whole Lucky Country seems to be gone to sewers. If 15 years ago we knew what we know now about Au, we'd never set foot here. We had won GC lottery a few years ago but decided to let the application lapse - biggest regret of my life now, we could just fly off to New Hampshire :) Maybe we can find way to an armistice, a compromise of sorts. I appreciate your responses in this thread very much. I feel sorry for your troubles with booster. I've heard just today that interval has been shortened to 3 months and they are open to shortening even more. I support your way of life, of tackling this problem and have no right to dictate or judge. I cannot support mandates under any circumstances, though. I also do not understand the desire to be boosted often, given that it has been demonstrated only marginally useful past certain point, but that's me. I believe the govt (mis)places too much faith and moral emphasis on bureaucratic rules. They are scared to admit their mistakes so much that they are trying to pitch people against each other. I can relay the personal anecdote. Something cold-like had swiped through our family here in December, with some rather unusual (for common cold) aspects pointing that it may have been Omicron. A non-event overall, but maybe it wasn't covid. Most of our extended family is in Eastern Europe. As Eastern as Europe goes, given that Russia is arguably considered Asia. My elderly in-laws and in-law siblings had Alpha. Some have been hospitalized. My parents had Delta couple of months ago. Although they usually freak out over every sniffle, this episode was surprisingly "meh" in comparison. Many, many other relatives and acquaintances had Alpha or Delta, of varying age and comorbidities, some had it easier and some harder, but ultimately all have dodged the bullet and recovered. So this is one thing that largely informs my perception. Interestingly, their president was often cited for "downplaying" and lack of lockdowns. I do hate the guy, he is criminal in every aspect, but (probably) because he does not need to worry about political points or votes (he can fudge as much of votes as he wishes), the overall response has been much more balanced, without unnecessary terrorizing, fearmongering or mandates. President largely distanced himself from the issue, the health agencies were left to do their job and as a result testing, tracing and isolation was pretty swift, early treatment protocols enabled and vaccines amply available to everyone who wanted. Also, "sauna and vodka" may not be a sound medical advice, but won't hurt either :). So, the situation on the ground is quite different from how it was portrayed. By contrast, in AU (and almost everywhere) politicians hijacked the response and busted it completely. They also managed to kill all joy of living. PM has made a complete mockery of a leader, not a single word or action from him had any weight. Premiers have revealed their absolutely worst side as Neo-feudals chasing popularity with peasants. In this situation my ability to reason is completely frozen, risk perception is distorted and the saddest of all, I don't see how this crisis is going to be resolved for better. All pointers are down :( And maybe to bring my response here into "on-topic". Djokovic may have made an admin mistake on a form, but ultimately he was sent off not because of this. So, to me it doesn't look like a principled stance of a govt, but rather an arbitrary whim. They said that they did not assess the counterfactual, nor they have to - how "smart" is that, even if legal? If they can do it to the only person who could challenge them in court, I'm terrified what they can do to my family.