5 ms·

Many companies I consult for in the US won’t provide a negative reference but instead answer all reference questions with: “I can confirm that they were employe

by awb 5y ago

Many companies I consult for in the US won’t provide a negative reference but instead answer all reference questions with: “I can confirm that they were employed here from MM/YY to MM/YY”. If you hear that it means it didn’t end well. Otherwise, many managers are happy to give a positive reference.

refurb 5y ago
Huh. My company won’t do anything more than confirm date of hire and salary. You could probably get a manager to give an informal reference “off the books”, not on company time.
- awb 5y ago
  In my experience these positive references are either a small quote taken from a LinkedIn reference, or a quick phone call. If you help your manager succeed, they will almost always be happy to help you out with a good word. It’s only a few minutes so no one is worried about it being on or off the clock in my experience.
- speed_spread 5y ago
  They confirm _salary_ ?! How on earth is this not private information? When negotiating salary for a new job, the employer will sometimes try to coerce you into giving this info in order to low-ball you and now all they have to do is call your former employer... wtf And yet I'm sure they try to keep anyone still employed from revealing their current salary to their coworkers.
  - awb 5y ago
    Hopefully not in CA. https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/discrimination/salary-history/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/discrimination/salary-his... > California Assembly Bill 168 took effect in October, 2017. This legislation bars employers from asking job applicants about salary history when applying for a position. I guess asking a reference isn’t quite the same as asking the applicant, but still it’s pretty inappropriate (if not illegal) and I’ve never heard of a past company revealing past compensation information.
ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
We had a strict HR policy of “name, rank, and serial number.” We were only allowed to confirm dates of employment, and were required to direct all referrals to HR. Our HR was run by lawyers, and was very tight about all kinds of policies. In one case, I once had to lay off a couple of employees. HR policy demanded that I do a “perp walk” to HR, before telling them in an HR ambush. I felt that this was unnecessarily humiliating and dehumanizing (I was right. One teared up), and informed them in individual sessions in my office. HR wrote me up for that. They were technically correct, as this gave the employees the chance to cause havoc (except that I immediately walked them up, after informing them. HR was really concerned that I would say something legally liable -I did not). A big part of my job, as a manager, was to act as a buffer between my employees, and a rather coldhearted and dishonest HR department. I will say that the company I worked at, had a very diverse workplace (below the Executive Suite), and harassment was not ever an endemic problem (of which I am aware). I know of a small number of instances (over 27 years), where people (men and women) were fired for inappropriate behavior. There was definitely a “the rules only apply to the little people” thing going on, but not in any really significant way. HR tended to look the other way at the C-Suite doing things we mensch weren’t allowed to do, but they kept it quiet. One of the things that I most enjoyed about leaving the company, was going to my former employees’ and coworkers’ LinkedIn pages, and giving them the glowing references they deserved.
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  The American culture of layoffs always surprised me. In Poland, for a typical work contract, the law mandates 1-2 months of layoff time. That is, the layoff decision is given two months in advance, but you keep working for those two months. Also, there are no surprise "security will escort you to the door where you can wait for your personal things" layoffs. I guess because people don't get taken by surprise with a layoff and are given enough time to find a new job, there is much less concern and acts of employee retalation
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    In the US, it is usually an ambush. I think that union shops can negotiate something like what you describe. Here's an old Dilbert comic, that summarizes it: https://dilbert.com/strip/2002-04-25 https://dilbert.com/strip/2002-04-25

by awb 5y ago

refurb 5y ago

Huh. My company won’t do anything more than confirm date of hire and salary. You could probably get a manager to give an informal reference “off the books”, not on company time.

awb 5y ago
In my experience these positive references are either a small quote taken from a LinkedIn reference, or a quick phone call. If you help your manager succeed, they will almost always be happy to help you out with a good word. It’s only a few minutes so no one is worried about it being on or off the clock in my experience.
speed_spread 5y ago
They confirm _salary_ ?! How on earth is this not private information? When negotiating salary for a new job, the employer will sometimes try to coerce you into giving this info in order to low-ball you and now all they have to do is call your former employer... wtf And yet I'm sure they try to keep anyone still employed from revealing their current salary to their coworkers.
- awb 5y ago
  Hopefully not in CA. https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/discrimination/salary-history/ https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/discrimination/salary-his... > California Assembly Bill 168 took effect in October, 2017. This legislation bars employers from asking job applicants about salary history when applying for a position. I guess asking a reference isn’t quite the same as asking the applicant, but still it’s pretty inappropriate (if not illegal) and I’ve never heard of a past company revealing past compensation information.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago

We had a strict HR policy of “name, rank, and serial number.” We were only allowed to confirm dates of employment, and were required to direct all referrals to HR. Our HR was run by lawyers, and was very tight about all kinds of policies. In one case, I once had to lay off a couple of employees. HR policy demanded that I do a “perp walk” to HR, before telling them in an HR ambush. I felt that this was unnecessarily humiliating and dehumanizing (I was right. One teared up), and informed them in individual sessions in my office. HR wrote me up for that. They were technically correct, as this gave the employees the chance to cause havoc (except that I immediately walked them up, after informing them. HR was really concerned that I would say something legally liable -I did not). A big part of my job, as a manager, was to act as a buffer between my employees, and a rather coldhearted and dishonest HR department. I will say that the company I worked at, had a very diverse workplace (below the Executive Suite), and harassment was not ever an endemic problem (of which I am aware). I know of a small number of instances (over 27 years), where people (men and women) were fired for inappropriate behavior. There was definitely a “the rules only apply to the little people” thing going on, but not in any really significant way. HR tended to look the other way at the C-Suite doing things we mensch weren’t allowed to do, but they kept it quiet. One of the things that I most enjoyed about leaving the company, was going to my former employees’ and coworkers’ LinkedIn pages, and giving them the glowing references they deserved.

skocznymroczny 5y ago
The American culture of layoffs always surprised me. In Poland, for a typical work contract, the law mandates 1-2 months of layoff time. That is, the layoff decision is given two months in advance, but you keep working for those two months. Also, there are no surprise "security will escort you to the door where you can wait for your personal things" layoffs. I guess because people don't get taken by surprise with a layoff and are given enough time to find a new job, there is much less concern and acts of employee retalation
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  In the US, it is usually an ambush. I think that union shops can negotiate something like what you describe. Here's an old Dilbert comic, that summarizes it: https://dilbert.com/strip/2002-04-25 https://dilbert.com/strip/2002-04-25