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Not at all. In India, a Punjabi restaurant won't sell dosas and vice versa. Cuisines are incredibly local and the recipes change wildly depending on where you e

by screye 5y ago

Not at all. In India, a Punjabi restaurant won't sell dosas and vice versa. Cuisines are incredibly local and the recipes change wildly depending on where you eat. The only exception is 'mom and pops veg restaurant' where the dishes are a Hodge podge of everything they can make. But these 'vanilla' dishes are usually there to pander to the customer and subpar. Their best dishes are usually the local speciality. Another exception is national chains like Haldirams, which make 'mediocre everything' and should not be a yardstick for anything indian. (Nothing against haldirams. Their Santra barfi is the best in the world as long as you buy it in the original nagpur location. They also run a few one-off speciality restaurants in Nagpur, which are quite good. But their national chain is meh) The sub-cuizinization of Indian food is already happening in the US. Godavari is an exclusively Udipi chain. Annapurna? in SJ and Kathakali in Seattle are top tier maharashtrian and Keralite restaurants. You now have Kathi and chat places with 1 page menus and cuisines from neighboring countries (Bangladeshi, Nepali, Srilankan) are finally being recognized as distinct. As a person for whom food is primary hobby, the idea that Indian or Chinese food gets put under one umbrella makes me rather annoyed. It does a disservice to the culture of civilizational behemoths.

stbtrax 5y ago
Do you have a good resource for finding localized-Indian food in the bay area?
- screye 5y ago
  Assuming you're in tech, just ask any Indian coworker. They probably know the best ones. Be clear in wanting to eat non-white-people Indian food and specify the region. Usually finding an Indian from that region is ideal. Truth is, that you probably want to get invited to an Indian potluck. Apart from Punjabi and street food, most other Indian cuisines do not have a well developed restaurant culture. So, the most authentic food is often home style cooking. With no offense to 2nd generation Indian-Americans, it is the 1st generation immigrants who will recreate their regional cuisine most faithfully. I don't know many bay area restaurants, since I don't reside there. I've visited once, that's it. Some regional cuisines to check out: * Maharashtrian / Mumbai - The Vadapav & Misal are iconic, but there is a lot more to this. Stir fried legumes (matki) is another personal favorite. * Konkan - Saltwater seafood heavy. My favorite are the coconut marinated crustacean preparations. Bombil (snakefish) is my comfort food, but near impossible to source in the US. * Indo-chinese - Inchin's Bamboo Garden is a reliable chain. Really interesting cultural exchange. Chili Paneer, Chicken Machurian and Szechuan (that is the cultural correct & technically incorrect spelling for Sichuan) rice go great together. * Chaat - An explosion of flavors. Every region does it differently, but Mumbai (Bombay) is the only one that does it right. Usually a combination of heterogeneously mixed chutneys and textures. Sweet with Spicy. Yogurty and crispy. The most delightful of Indian cuisines. (sorry Delhi, you're second. Some other places put carrot in their chat, and I hope those heathens marry people who order their steak well done) * Kerala / Malabar - Parotta, Appam and goat curries are my favorite. Chili Beef is probably India's most iconic beef dish. * Mughlai - Not Punjabi. Real Mughlai food takes a clay oven and charcoal. It also takes a lot of human effort and time. Most Indian places in the US cut corners. A perfect Biryani is epitomizes this cuisine, but finding the right Biryani place is an active challenge. Kababs and grilled tikka are their most visible, but a rabdi-shahi tukda is the most opulent version of a tres-leches cake that you can imagine. (sort of) * Nepali - Not Indian, but I LOVE their momos (dumplings). Ironically, Nepali restaurant food is the closest thing to authentic homestyle food I've had in the US. They seem to care less about making the traditional british-american dishes and their cooking seems more rooted in how 'mom used to make it'. This only starches the surface of the many cuisines that India has to offer. But, it's an HN comment not a blog post. (I just got an idea for a blog post series )
walrus01 5y ago
so I agree with you on the Punjabi food, but there's some commonalities that I've found people enjoy between different regions of south asia. Friends from Pakistan that had never been to a Sri Lankan restaurant before very much enjoyed the dosa places we went to, and the authentic spicy (4 out of 5 on a spicy level?) dosa fillings were similar in many ways to some of the spicier pakistani foods...
- screye 5y ago
  Oh for sure. The core culinary approach and ethos is identical across the subcontinent. I'd say it extends as far as Eastern Africa, Bhutan, Malaysia and Thailand. (not Vietnam tho)
  - vinay427 5y ago
    Could you elaborate further on this? I’m curious what commonalities you find in the cuisines of these areas.
    - screye 5y ago
      It is the core approach to cooking. I would contrast it with Latin (French, Spanish, Italian) cooking. The idea with Latin cooking, is to get the highest quality ingredients that go together really well. It is about a small set of ingredients that play-off-of each other to highlight the strengths of each. The musical analogy, would be a 3 piece band, where you can hear every instrument. Indian cooking is about a feeling of oneness, derived from the combination of many. 30 different ingredients come together to become 1 flavor that is its own thing. The individual disappears in favor of the creation of a new whole. The musical analogy here, would be a big orchestral composition. You never pick out the individual instruments. Yet, it evokes a single emotion and a singular atmosphere. Indian & similar cooking starts with incredibly complex base ingredients. My family's chilli powder recipe contains 8 different types of chillies and a total of 37 ingredients. This powder goes on to become 1 of a dozen spices that form the flavor base of the final dish. The whole doesn't taste of the ingredients, by design. Xiaoxing wine or Sambal Olek are similar complex base ingredients in the other cultures I mention. You have to approach each style from a completely different mental state. Having started cooking only once I moved to the US, I became a pretty good western cook, but I could never figure out how to cook Indian food. It is only after about 4 years, that I realized that you can't approach Indian cooking from a western perspective. I now understand why my mom used vague instructions and cues instead of a rigid recipe. I am still a much better western cook than an Indian one, but that's fine cuz I just get my Indian friends here to cook their mom's recipes for me.
ramraj07 5y ago
I’m talking about the reality in a place like Chennai India. Among restaurants that serve Indian food here the majority label themselves “multi cuisine” meaning you will find south, north and indo Chinese dishes in all of them. They’re definitely not bad. I wouldn’t necessarily go there for the best rumali roti in town but they’re good stuff anyway. Other than Punjabi and chaat no other Indian sub cuisine gets too many special restaurants at least here. I’m not saying that this is the best way. I prefer specialized restaurants as well, but Foreign folk get introduced to ethnic food in steps and step 1 is a compression of an entire nations diversity into a single menu. Ones only hope is they do it a decent service. This will naturally let people pursue specialized cuisines from there as is happening with Chinese cuisine in most big metropoles in the US and I’m sure will happen with Indian over time as well.

by screye 5y ago

stbtrax 5y ago

Do you have a good resource for finding localized-Indian food in the bay area?

screye 5y ago
Assuming you're in tech, just ask any Indian coworker. They probably know the best ones. Be clear in wanting to eat non-white-people Indian food and specify the region. Usually finding an Indian from that region is ideal. Truth is, that you probably want to get invited to an Indian potluck. Apart from Punjabi and street food, most other Indian cuisines do not have a well developed restaurant culture. So, the most authentic food is often home style cooking. With no offense to 2nd generation Indian-Americans, it is the 1st generation immigrants who will recreate their regional cuisine most faithfully. I don't know many bay area restaurants, since I don't reside there. I've visited once, that's it. Some regional cuisines to check out: * Maharashtrian / Mumbai - The Vadapav & Misal are iconic, but there is a lot more to this. Stir fried legumes (matki) is another personal favorite. * Konkan - Saltwater seafood heavy. My favorite are the coconut marinated crustacean preparations. Bombil (snakefish) is my comfort food, but near impossible to source in the US. * Indo-chinese - Inchin's Bamboo Garden is a reliable chain. Really interesting cultural exchange. Chili Paneer, Chicken Machurian and Szechuan (that is the cultural correct & technically incorrect spelling for Sichuan) rice go great together. * Chaat - An explosion of flavors. Every region does it differently, but Mumbai (Bombay) is the only one that does it right. Usually a combination of heterogeneously mixed chutneys and textures. Sweet with Spicy. Yogurty and crispy. The most delightful of Indian cuisines. (sorry Delhi, you're second. Some other places put carrot in their chat, and I hope those heathens marry people who order their steak well done) * Kerala / Malabar - Parotta, Appam and goat curries are my favorite. Chili Beef is probably India's most iconic beef dish. * Mughlai - Not Punjabi. Real Mughlai food takes a clay oven and charcoal. It also takes a lot of human effort and time. Most Indian places in the US cut corners. A perfect Biryani is epitomizes this cuisine, but finding the right Biryani place is an active challenge. Kababs and grilled tikka are their most visible, but a rabdi-shahi tukda is the most opulent version of a tres-leches cake that you can imagine. (sort of) * Nepali - Not Indian, but I LOVE their momos (dumplings). Ironically, Nepali restaurant food is the closest thing to authentic homestyle food I've had in the US. They seem to care less about making the traditional british-american dishes and their cooking seems more rooted in how 'mom used to make it'. This only starches the surface of the many cuisines that India has to offer. But, it's an HN comment not a blog post. (I just got an idea for a blog post series )

walrus01 5y ago

so I agree with you on the Punjabi food, but there's some commonalities that I've found people enjoy between different regions of south asia. Friends from Pakistan that had never been to a Sri Lankan restaurant before very much enjoyed the dosa places we went to, and the authentic spicy (4 out of 5 on a spicy level?) dosa fillings were similar in many ways to some of the spicier pakistani foods...

screye 5y ago
Oh for sure. The core culinary approach and ethos is identical across the subcontinent. I'd say it extends as far as Eastern Africa, Bhutan, Malaysia and Thailand. (not Vietnam tho)
- vinay427 5y ago
  Could you elaborate further on this? I’m curious what commonalities you find in the cuisines of these areas.
  - screye 5y ago
    It is the core approach to cooking. I would contrast it with Latin (French, Spanish, Italian) cooking. The idea with Latin cooking, is to get the highest quality ingredients that go together really well. It is about a small set of ingredients that play-off-of each other to highlight the strengths of each. The musical analogy, would be a 3 piece band, where you can hear every instrument. Indian cooking is about a feeling of oneness, derived from the combination of many. 30 different ingredients come together to become 1 flavor that is its own thing. The individual disappears in favor of the creation of a new whole. The musical analogy here, would be a big orchestral composition. You never pick out the individual instruments. Yet, it evokes a single emotion and a singular atmosphere. Indian & similar cooking starts with incredibly complex base ingredients. My family's chilli powder recipe contains 8 different types of chillies and a total of 37 ingredients. This powder goes on to become 1 of a dozen spices that form the flavor base of the final dish. The whole doesn't taste of the ingredients, by design. Xiaoxing wine or Sambal Olek are similar complex base ingredients in the other cultures I mention. You have to approach each style from a completely different mental state. Having started cooking only once I moved to the US, I became a pretty good western cook, but I could never figure out how to cook Indian food. It is only after about 4 years, that I realized that you can't approach Indian cooking from a western perspective. I now understand why my mom used vague instructions and cues instead of a rigid recipe. I am still a much better western cook than an Indian one, but that's fine cuz I just get my Indian friends here to cook their mom's recipes for me.

ramraj07 5y ago

I’m talking about the reality in a place like Chennai India. Among restaurants that serve Indian food here the majority label themselves “multi cuisine” meaning you will find south, north and indo Chinese dishes in all of them. They’re definitely not bad. I wouldn’t necessarily go there for the best rumali roti in town but they’re good stuff anyway. Other than Punjabi and chaat no other Indian sub cuisine gets too many special restaurants at least here. I’m not saying that this is the best way. I prefer specialized restaurants as well, but Foreign folk get introduced to ethnic food in steps and step 1 is a compression of an entire nations diversity into a single menu. Ones only hope is they do it a decent service. This will naturally let people pursue specialized cuisines from there as is happening with Chinese cuisine in most big metropoles in the US and I’m sure will happen with Indian over time as well.