6 ms·

I'm distantly Native and have had a mild interest in Native foods for a while. Sadly it seems most of the Native pre-Colombian foodways are long gone (in the U

by bane 5y ago

I'm distantly Native and have had a mild interest in Native foods for a while. Sadly it seems most of the Native pre-Colombian foodways are long gone (in the U.S. at least). There's some wonderful exceptions though, lots of Tex-Mex style foods are direct descendants of native foods. The foods that are kept as Native foods in many areas are often created out of the hardships that came post-Colombian, and often post resettlement. For example, I spent some time in the Navajo nation and one of the main traditional foods is Frybread -- a tradition that started after resettlement when lard and flour were brought in by the U.S. government to fend off starvation -- and is common on other reservations as well. There's some decent hearty food that's since been built off of fry bread. Is it "Native food?" Or is it food made by Native Americans, who often are trying to modernize folkways and tap into locally available ingredients? To be honest, pretty much everywhere is post-Colombian now. You can get tomatoes, peppers, corn, squash, and potatoes (among other things) pretty much anywhere on the planet. And the converse is true, as the mass of Euro-Asian-African foodways have spread across the Americas just as well. Some videos of native foods from the Cherokee people, a tribe that's been putting tremendous efforts into preserving their language, and culture. A few people have even been identified as Cherokee national treasures for their traditional food knowledge. https://youtu.be/GSBBEYtMPNU https://youtu.be/GSBBEYtMPNU https://youtu.be/kJyYYsEBUWM https://youtu.be/kJyYYsEBUWM https://youtu.be/dKO2UrWwOSw https://youtu.be/dKO2UrWwOSw https://youtu.be/o52BCTqrX_U https://youtu.be/o52BCTqrX_U https://youtu.be/z_u54Vgv6Z0 https://youtu.be/z_u54Vgv6Z0 https://youtu.be/orW1Gcy3otE https://youtu.be/orW1Gcy3otE https://youtu.be/laV4uG-iBD4 https://youtu.be/laV4uG-iBD4

prpl 5y ago
You would be interested in following Chef Karlos Baca (Diné) who is also generally interested in decolonization of food and has some really interesting things he puts together.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kepler1 5y ago
Honestly, I think frybread is something that Native Americans would do well to forget and cut largely from their diet, aside from special occasions. It's basically a funnel cake, with all the unhealthy implications. I would no more associate funnel cakes with respect-worthy Native American food than I would with good American food. At best it's a recent implanted/necessity food item that has provides some vague connection with difficult times and history but is not a true cultural heritage, and at worst it keeps people now in obesity and unhealthy diets -- and Native Americans could use all the cultural help to free themselves of those problems. Flame away as insensitive, but these are realities.
- bane 5y ago
  I don't know that I disagree. It tastes great, makes an excellent pizza base, but may be one of the densest forms of calories you can make from scratch. A few people are pushing to go back to a more tortilla style way of cooking. But the perception that "this is our food and needs to be preserved as part of our identity" is going to be hard to shake.
- chasd00 5y ago
  "It's basically a funnel cake, with all the unhealthy implications." while i agree, please eat a funnel cake if you've never had one before :) Preferably, at a county fair while waiting in line for a ride.
gherkinnn 5y ago
> To be honest, pretty much everywhere is post-Colombian now. Not only that. Post-Colombian food _is_ an integral part of many countries’ cuisine now. Italian food without tomatoes is nigh unthinkable. And potatoes form the base for so, so many countries. There are other influences too. The aubergine was first cultivated in South and East Asia but today it’s a staple in the Mediterranean and Middle East as well. At some point one has to stop thinking of indigenous food sources as the only way to form a countries’ cuisine. It is also interesting to realise just how little time has to pass in order to make a practice inseparable from a people. Some aspects of Italian coffee culture are quite recent, for example.
- frobozz 5y ago
  Yes. To suggest otherwise is to insist that cuisine (or any other tradition) must be somehow frozen at a specific point in history in order to be "authentic". Even if that is an acceptable assertion, what would be that specific point? Does a British recipe have to predate the Romans to be traditional?
  - gherkinnn 5y ago
    One point is that the post-Colombian shift in native american cuisines is linked to cultural trauma. And in some cases it wasn’t that long ago. So I understand the desire to rediscover pre-contact food. Or so I would imagine. I know little about this topic.
    - frobozz 5y ago
      Absolutely. What I mean is that we can't declare something "inauthentic" just because it was invented after a certain time or event.
- toopok4k3 5y ago
  It's always amazing to think that Pizza existed long before tomatoes were brought to Europe.
  - 5y ago
mrleinad 5y ago
Thanks to your post, I just discovered that something I always requested my grandmother to make was called "frybread". Here in Argentina we call it "tortas fritas", and it's been consumed since forever here and in Chile, where it's known as "sopaipillas". I don't know about countries to the north, but if it's on the other hemisphere, it would make sense it's known throughout the entire American continent.
- chasd00 5y ago
  In Texas they're called Sopapillas and standard issue tex-mex dessert. It' usually served warm, dusted with sugar, and with a side of honey for dipping. I don't think i've ever had them any other way, i guess it's hard to improve on perfection.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fried_dough_foods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fried_dough_foods Be careful, though, the article can trigger an uncontrollable salivating and induce an urge to ravage the fridge.
int_19h 5y ago
Cultures evolve, and that includes their cuisines. In general, I think the only sensible approach is to track that - so if a given culture grows to recognize something as their signature dish, and so do their neighbors, then it is indeed theirs, regardless of its origin and history. Which means that frybread is, indeed, a Native American dish.

by bane 5y ago

prpl 5y ago

You would be interested in following Chef Karlos Baca (Diné) who is also generally interested in decolonization of food and has some really interesting things he puts together.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kepler1 5y ago

Honestly, I think frybread is something that Native Americans would do well to forget and cut largely from their diet, aside from special occasions. It's basically a funnel cake, with all the unhealthy implications. I would no more associate funnel cakes with respect-worthy Native American food than I would with good American food. At best it's a recent implanted/necessity food item that has provides some vague connection with difficult times and history but is not a true cultural heritage, and at worst it keeps people now in obesity and unhealthy diets -- and Native Americans could use all the cultural help to free themselves of those problems. Flame away as insensitive, but these are realities.

bane 5y ago
I don't know that I disagree. It tastes great, makes an excellent pizza base, but may be one of the densest forms of calories you can make from scratch. A few people are pushing to go back to a more tortilla style way of cooking. But the perception that "this is our food and needs to be preserved as part of our identity" is going to be hard to shake.
chasd00 5y ago
"It's basically a funnel cake, with all the unhealthy implications." while i agree, please eat a funnel cake if you've never had one before :) Preferably, at a county fair while waiting in line for a ride.

gherkinnn 5y ago

> To be honest, pretty much everywhere is post-Colombian now. Not only that. Post-Colombian food _is_ an integral part of many countries’ cuisine now. Italian food without tomatoes is nigh unthinkable. And potatoes form the base for so, so many countries. There are other influences too. The aubergine was first cultivated in South and East Asia but today it’s a staple in the Mediterranean and Middle East as well. At some point one has to stop thinking of indigenous food sources as the only way to form a countries’ cuisine. It is also interesting to realise just how little time has to pass in order to make a practice inseparable from a people. Some aspects of Italian coffee culture are quite recent, for example.

frobozz 5y ago
Yes. To suggest otherwise is to insist that cuisine (or any other tradition) must be somehow frozen at a specific point in history in order to be "authentic". Even if that is an acceptable assertion, what would be that specific point? Does a British recipe have to predate the Romans to be traditional?
- gherkinnn 5y ago
  One point is that the post-Colombian shift in native american cuisines is linked to cultural trauma. And in some cases it wasn’t that long ago. So I understand the desire to rediscover pre-contact food. Or so I would imagine. I know little about this topic.
  - frobozz 5y ago
    Absolutely. What I mean is that we can't declare something "inauthentic" just because it was invented after a certain time or event.
toopok4k3 5y ago
It's always amazing to think that Pizza existed long before tomatoes were brought to Europe.
- 5y ago

mrleinad 5y ago

Thanks to your post, I just discovered that something I always requested my grandmother to make was called "frybread". Here in Argentina we call it "tortas fritas", and it's been consumed since forever here and in Chile, where it's known as "sopaipillas". I don't know about countries to the north, but if it's on the other hemisphere, it would make sense it's known throughout the entire American continent.

chasd00 5y ago
In Texas they're called Sopapillas and standard issue tex-mex dessert. It' usually served warm, dusted with sugar, and with a side of honey for dipping. I don't think i've ever had them any other way, i guess it's hard to improve on perfection.
justsomehnguy 5y ago
FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fried_dough_foods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fried_dough_foods Be careful, though, the article can trigger an uncontrollable salivating and induce an urge to ravage the fridge.

int_19h 5y ago

Cultures evolve, and that includes their cuisines. In general, I think the only sensible approach is to track that - so if a given culture grows to recognize something as their signature dish, and so do their neighbors, then it is indeed theirs, regardless of its origin and history. Which means that frybread is, indeed, a Native American dish.