6 ms·

The terms "Chinese food" and "Indian food" are similarly reductive/broad. They represent in the US a specific a new cuisine, a kind of curated fusion (eg chicke

The terms "Chinese food" and "Indian food" are similarly reductive/broad. They represent in the US a specific a new cuisine, a kind of curated fusion (eg chicken tikka masala). If your focus is on understanding the food of a place and people and how those things relate, this is a bad thing probably. As the market grows it kind of gets undone - this is most obvious in America with maybe Japanese restaurants? Sushi, ramen, bbq are often entirely different restaurants. Except that, as the fusion represents a new cuisine, it can stick around on its own

ramraj07 5y ago
I’m Indian and don’t see any problems with all Indian being mushed together into a single place. Honestly that’s par for course even in india, pretty much most restaurants label themselves as “multi cuisine” and make 5 different genres of Indian and fusion food. The question is if they’re still true to heart and make it taste good.
- screye 5y ago
  Not at all. In India, a Punjabi restaurant won't sell dosas and vice versa. Cuisines are incredibly local and the recipes change wildly depending on where you eat. The only exception is 'mom and pops veg restaurant' where the dishes are a Hodge podge of everything they can make. But these 'vanilla' dishes are usually there to pander to the customer and subpar. Their best dishes are usually the local speciality. Another exception is national chains like Haldirams, which make 'mediocre everything' and should not be a yardstick for anything indian. (Nothing against haldirams. Their Santra barfi is the best in the world as long as you buy it in the original nagpur location. They also run a few one-off speciality restaurants in Nagpur, which are quite good. But their national chain is meh) The sub-cuizinization of Indian food is already happening in the US. Godavari is an exclusively Udipi chain. Annapurna? in SJ and Kathakali in Seattle are top tier maharashtrian and Keralite restaurants. You now have Kathi and chat places with 1 page menus and cuisines from neighboring countries (Bangladeshi, Nepali, Srilankan) are finally being recognized as distinct. As a person for whom food is primary hobby, the idea that Indian or Chinese food gets put under one umbrella makes me rather annoyed. It does a disservice to the culture of civilizational behemoths.
  - stbtrax 5y ago
    Do you have a good resource for finding localized-Indian food in the bay area?
    - screye 5y ago
      Assuming you're in tech, just ask any Indian coworker. They probably know the best ones. Be clear in wanting to eat non-white-people Indian food and specify the region. Usually finding an Indian from that region is ideal. Truth is, that you probably want to get invited to an Indian potluck. Apart from Punjabi and street food, most other Indian cuisines do not have a well developed restaurant culture. So, the most authentic food is often home style cooking. With no offense to 2nd generation Indian-Americans, it is the 1st generation immigrants who will recreate their regional cuisine most faithfully. I don't know many bay area restaurants, since I don't reside there. I've visited once, that's it. Some regional cuisines to check out: * Maharashtrian / Mumbai - The Vadapav & Misal are iconic, but there is a lot more to this. Stir fried legumes (matki) is another personal favorite. * Konkan - Saltwater seafood heavy. My favorite are the coconut marinated crustacean preparations. Bombil (snakefish) is my comfort food, but near impossible to source in the US. * Indo-chinese - Inchin's Bamboo Garden is a reliable chain. Really interesting cultural exchange. Chili Paneer, Chicken Machurian and Szechuan (that is the cultural correct & technically incorrect spelling for Sichuan) rice go great together. * Chaat - An explosion of flavors. Every region does it differently, but Mumbai (Bombay) is the only one that does it right. Usually a combination of heterogeneously mixed chutneys and textures. Sweet with Spicy. Yogurty and crispy. The most delightful of Indian cuisines. (sorry Delhi, you're second. Some other places put carrot in their chat, and I hope those heathens marry people who order their steak well done) * Kerala / Malabar - Parotta, Appam and goat curries are my favorite. Chili Beef is probably India's most iconic beef dish. * Mughlai - Not Punjabi. Real Mughlai food takes a clay oven and charcoal. It also takes a lot of human effort and time. Most Indian places in the US cut corners. A perfect Biryani is epitomizes this cuisine, but finding the right Biryani place is an active challenge. Kababs and grilled tikka are their most visible, but a rabdi-shahi tukda is the most opulent version of a tres-leches cake that you can imagine. (sort of) * Nepali - Not Indian, but I LOVE their momos (dumplings). Ironically, Nepali restaurant food is the closest thing to authentic homestyle food I've had in the US. They seem to care less about making the traditional british-american dishes and their cooking seems more rooted in how 'mom used to make it'. This only starches the surface of the many cuisines that India has to offer. But, it's an HN comment not a blog post. (I just got an idea for a blog post series )
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
Ramen is a fairly modern invention that was based around Chinese recipes with American wheat post-war. Its hard to call it a Japanese native food, but that's what we're going with.
- kristopolous 5y ago
  Sounds like you know more than I do on this but wouldn't there be lots of soba analogs in japan already? I may be mistaken, but Ramen (as noodles in broth with toppings) strikes me as a fairly obvious dish once you have a kind of noodle and broth.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    Soba is made of buckwheat so its really an very different type of dish, but Ramen used to be just called "Chinese Soba", since wheat based noodles are very different from rice or buckwheat. Ramen specifically uses wheat noodles. "Modern Japanese Ramen" took Chinese recipes that used wheat noddles and used them to great effect during the American occupation with extremely cheap wheat prices (compared to other choice). You can be damn sure without cheap American wheat, Ramen would have stayed as Chinese Soba It's one of those things that make people uncomfortable because history is messy.
    - user_named 5y ago
      "American wheat" is inconsequential. Ramen is the Japanese word for la mian which means pulled noodles. So your history lesson isn't uncomfortable but wrong.
      - dendriti 5y ago
        Ramen (and Japanese-style breads, among other dishes) were popularized during and after the American occupation, in which American wheat flooded the Japanese market in unprecedented quantities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_the_Occupation_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_the_Occupation_of_Japa...
emodendroket 5y ago
I wouldn't consider the Japanese analog a great one because sushi, ramen, and yakiniku are not particularly regional specialties.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  Regional ramens certainly exist, though probably not the way you would encounter it in the US.
  - kevinmchugh 5y ago
    Some of the ramen restaurants I've been to in the US do feature different regional ramens.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      The most popular (or one of them anyway) ramen in the US is miso ramen, which is a regional ramen in Japan but not really here, for whatever reason.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Yeah... but a "ramen restaurant" is not in an of itself regional unless it chooses to specialize only in those.

ramraj07 5y ago

I’m Indian and don’t see any problems with all Indian being mushed together into a single place. Honestly that’s par for course even in india, pretty much most restaurants label themselves as “multi cuisine” and make 5 different genres of Indian and fusion food. The question is if they’re still true to heart and make it taste good.

screye 5y ago
Not at all. In India, a Punjabi restaurant won't sell dosas and vice versa. Cuisines are incredibly local and the recipes change wildly depending on where you eat. The only exception is 'mom and pops veg restaurant' where the dishes are a Hodge podge of everything they can make. But these 'vanilla' dishes are usually there to pander to the customer and subpar. Their best dishes are usually the local speciality. Another exception is national chains like Haldirams, which make 'mediocre everything' and should not be a yardstick for anything indian. (Nothing against haldirams. Their Santra barfi is the best in the world as long as you buy it in the original nagpur location. They also run a few one-off speciality restaurants in Nagpur, which are quite good. But their national chain is meh) The sub-cuizinization of Indian food is already happening in the US. Godavari is an exclusively Udipi chain. Annapurna? in SJ and Kathakali in Seattle are top tier maharashtrian and Keralite restaurants. You now have Kathi and chat places with 1 page menus and cuisines from neighboring countries (Bangladeshi, Nepali, Srilankan) are finally being recognized as distinct. As a person for whom food is primary hobby, the idea that Indian or Chinese food gets put under one umbrella makes me rather annoyed. It does a disservice to the culture of civilizational behemoths.
- stbtrax 5y ago
  Do you have a good resource for finding localized-Indian food in the bay area?
  - screye 5y ago
    Assuming you're in tech, just ask any Indian coworker. They probably know the best ones. Be clear in wanting to eat non-white-people Indian food and specify the region. Usually finding an Indian from that region is ideal. Truth is, that you probably want to get invited to an Indian potluck. Apart from Punjabi and street food, most other Indian cuisines do not have a well developed restaurant culture. So, the most authentic food is often home style cooking. With no offense to 2nd generation Indian-Americans, it is the 1st generation immigrants who will recreate their regional cuisine most faithfully. I don't know many bay area restaurants, since I don't reside there. I've visited once, that's it. Some regional cuisines to check out: * Maharashtrian / Mumbai - The Vadapav & Misal are iconic, but there is a lot more to this. Stir fried legumes (matki) is another personal favorite. * Konkan - Saltwater seafood heavy. My favorite are the coconut marinated crustacean preparations. Bombil (snakefish) is my comfort food, but near impossible to source in the US. * Indo-chinese - Inchin's Bamboo Garden is a reliable chain. Really interesting cultural exchange. Chili Paneer, Chicken Machurian and Szechuan (that is the cultural correct & technically incorrect spelling for Sichuan) rice go great together. * Chaat - An explosion of flavors. Every region does it differently, but Mumbai (Bombay) is the only one that does it right. Usually a combination of heterogeneously mixed chutneys and textures. Sweet with Spicy. Yogurty and crispy. The most delightful of Indian cuisines. (sorry Delhi, you're second. Some other places put carrot in their chat, and I hope those heathens marry people who order their steak well done) * Kerala / Malabar - Parotta, Appam and goat curries are my favorite. Chili Beef is probably India's most iconic beef dish. * Mughlai - Not Punjabi. Real Mughlai food takes a clay oven and charcoal. It also takes a lot of human effort and time. Most Indian places in the US cut corners. A perfect Biryani is epitomizes this cuisine, but finding the right Biryani place is an active challenge. Kababs and grilled tikka are their most visible, but a rabdi-shahi tukda is the most opulent version of a tres-leches cake that you can imagine. (sort of) * Nepali - Not Indian, but I LOVE their momos (dumplings). Ironically, Nepali restaurant food is the closest thing to authentic homestyle food I've had in the US. They seem to care less about making the traditional british-american dishes and their cooking seems more rooted in how 'mom used to make it'. This only starches the surface of the many cuisines that India has to offer. But, it's an HN comment not a blog post. (I just got an idea for a blog post series )

NikolaeVarius 5y ago

Ramen is a fairly modern invention that was based around Chinese recipes with American wheat post-war. Its hard to call it a Japanese native food, but that's what we're going with.

kristopolous 5y ago
Sounds like you know more than I do on this but wouldn't there be lots of soba analogs in japan already? I may be mistaken, but Ramen (as noodles in broth with toppings) strikes me as a fairly obvious dish once you have a kind of noodle and broth.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  Soba is made of buckwheat so its really an very different type of dish, but Ramen used to be just called "Chinese Soba", since wheat based noodles are very different from rice or buckwheat. Ramen specifically uses wheat noodles. "Modern Japanese Ramen" took Chinese recipes that used wheat noddles and used them to great effect during the American occupation with extremely cheap wheat prices (compared to other choice). You can be damn sure without cheap American wheat, Ramen would have stayed as Chinese Soba It's one of those things that make people uncomfortable because history is messy.
  - user_named 5y ago
    "American wheat" is inconsequential. Ramen is the Japanese word for la mian which means pulled noodles. So your history lesson isn't uncomfortable but wrong.
    - dendriti 5y ago
      Ramen (and Japanese-style breads, among other dishes) were popularized during and after the American occupation, in which American wheat flooded the Japanese market in unprecedented quantities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_the_Occupation_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_the_Occupation_of_Japa...

emodendroket 5y ago

I wouldn't consider the Japanese analog a great one because sushi, ramen, and yakiniku are not particularly regional specialties.

bobthepanda 5y ago
Regional ramens certainly exist, though probably not the way you would encounter it in the US.
- kevinmchugh 5y ago
  Some of the ramen restaurants I've been to in the US do feature different regional ramens.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    The most popular (or one of them anyway) ramen in the US is miso ramen, which is a regional ramen in Japan but not really here, for whatever reason.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Yeah... but a "ramen restaurant" is not in an of itself regional unless it chooses to specialize only in those.