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Why are Hindu nationalists concerned about the fertility rates of the Parsi community?

ummonk 5y ago
There is natural affinity between Zoroastriansim and Hinduism due to the related roots of Vedic and early Iranic religion (fire rituals in particular are a striking similarity). Additionally, Hindu nationalism is driven by a perceived need to defend against religions that seek to convert the world (namely, Christianity and Islam). As such, Zoroastrianism is seen as a religion that needed sheltering from Islam. Finally, specifically to the fertility rate issue, there is often fear amongst Hindu nationalists that differences in fertility rates will lead to Islamic demographic ascendancy, so it's natural to apply the same logic to the declining Parsi community.
- fooker 5y ago
  >differences in fertility rates will lead to Islamic demographic ascendancy That seems mathematically sound. What am I missing?
  - hoseja 5y ago
    Stop noticing things.
  - naravara 5y ago
    Straight line extrapolations of present trends indefinitely into the future are rarely reliable. Plus the demographics are generally driven more by poverty and access to family planning resources moreso than the religious/demographic warfare angle nationalists tend to lean to. In other words, if demographic balance was really the concern the most effective proven way to address it would be to invest heavily in education and healthcare in the community with above-average fertility. But instead the proposed policies always insist on more and harsher crackdowns on the minority group, which will be counterproductive at best.
    - dharmach 5y ago
      If this was true (or the only factor), the demographic trends in India would match the ones from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
      - naravara 5y ago
        Why do you say that? There’s a million differences between the populations of those three countries. For one thing, Muslim family law in India is actually a fair bit more conservative than in Pak/Bang.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > What am I missing? The fact that a correlation between religion and fertility rates is completely bollocks (with the notable exceptions of some extremist/fundamentalist sects of Christianity such as Quiverfull and Amish as well as fringes of the Jewish Ultra-Orthodox movement). High reproduction rates are closely linked to poverty [1], and once wealth rises in a country or people migrate from poor/high-rate countries, birth rates drop accordingly [2]. Additionally, it's a simple numbers game. The US only has 1% of Muslim faith [3], the European continent has ~7.5% [4] Muslims (of which 2/3rds belong to Russia and Turkey - the European Union figure is ~3.3%), even India barely has 13% [5]. It's mathematically impossible for Islam to achieve dominance in any country it doesn't already have by population in any feasible time scale, especially as religious affiliation in general keeps dropping and dropping associated again with wealth and education levels. In general, the "the Muslims will replace us demographically!!!" take is dominantly found on the far-right end of the political spectrum, with the worst of the worst being the virulently anti-semitic "great replacement" theory that alleges that a "new world order" led by Jews wants to "replace" the intelligent White Christian population with dumb Muslims [6]. Please, don't fall for that kind of baseless, vile propaganda. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/25/high-birth-rates-poverty-undermine-generation-african-children-odi-report https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/25/h... [2]: https://www.knomad.org/sites/default/files/2020-01/Migration%20Fertility%20Paper%20%282019%20Update_World%20Bank%29_final_-converted.pdf https://www.knomad.org/sites/default/files/2020-01/Migration... [3]: https://www.pewforum.org/2021/01/14/measuring-religion-in-pew-research-centers-american-trends-panel/ https://www.pewforum.org/2021/01/14/measuring-religion-in-pe... [4]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europa#Statistik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europa#Statistik [5]: https://www.bpb.de/internationales/asien/indien/44418/muslime-in-indien https://www.bpb.de/internationales/asien/indien/44418/muslim... [6]: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/the-great-replacement-an-explainer https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/the-great-replac...
    - dharmach 5y ago
      It is not about plain fertility rate but tipping of demographic balance between communities by various means. It can create pockets of Muslim majority in countries where they are minority and then "right to self-determination" means partitions.
test43523 5y ago

There is natural affinity between Zoroastriansim and Hinduism due to the related roots of Vedic and early Iranic religion (fire rituals in particular are a striking similarity). Additionally, Hindu nationalism is driven by a perceived need to defend against religions that seek to convert the world (namely, Christianity and Islam). As such, Zoroastrianism is seen as a religion that needed sheltering from Islam. Finally, specifically to the fertility rate issue, there is often fear amongst Hindu nationalists that differences in fertility rates will lead to Islamic demographic ascendancy, so it's natural to apply the same logic to the declining Parsi community.

fooker 5y ago
>differences in fertility rates will lead to Islamic demographic ascendancy That seems mathematically sound. What am I missing?
- hoseja 5y ago
  Stop noticing things.
- naravara 5y ago
  Straight line extrapolations of present trends indefinitely into the future are rarely reliable. Plus the demographics are generally driven more by poverty and access to family planning resources moreso than the religious/demographic warfare angle nationalists tend to lean to. In other words, if demographic balance was really the concern the most effective proven way to address it would be to invest heavily in education and healthcare in the community with above-average fertility. But instead the proposed policies always insist on more and harsher crackdowns on the minority group, which will be counterproductive at best.
  - dharmach 5y ago
    If this was true (or the only factor), the demographic trends in India would match the ones from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
    - naravara 5y ago
      Why do you say that? There’s a million differences between the populations of those three countries. For one thing, Muslim family law in India is actually a fair bit more conservative than in Pak/Bang.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > What am I missing? The fact that a correlation between religion and fertility rates is completely bollocks (with the notable exceptions of some extremist/fundamentalist sects of Christianity such as Quiverfull and Amish as well as fringes of the Jewish Ultra-Orthodox movement). High reproduction rates are closely linked to poverty [1], and once wealth rises in a country or people migrate from poor/high-rate countries, birth rates drop accordingly [2]. Additionally, it's a simple numbers game. The US only has 1% of Muslim faith [3], the European continent has ~7.5% [4] Muslims (of which 2/3rds belong to Russia and Turkey - the European Union figure is ~3.3%), even India barely has 13% [5]. It's mathematically impossible for Islam to achieve dominance in any country it doesn't already have by population in any feasible time scale, especially as religious affiliation in general keeps dropping and dropping associated again with wealth and education levels. In general, the "the Muslims will replace us demographically!!!" take is dominantly found on the far-right end of the political spectrum, with the worst of the worst being the virulently anti-semitic "great replacement" theory that alleges that a "new world order" led by Jews wants to "replace" the intelligent White Christian population with dumb Muslims [6]. Please, don't fall for that kind of baseless, vile propaganda. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/25/high-birth-rates-poverty-undermine-generation-african-children-odi-report https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2016/aug/25/h... [2]: https://www.knomad.org/sites/default/files/2020-01/Migration%20Fertility%20Paper%20%282019%20Update_World%20Bank%29_final_-converted.pdf https://www.knomad.org/sites/default/files/2020-01/Migration... [3]: https://www.pewforum.org/2021/01/14/measuring-religion-in-pew-research-centers-american-trends-panel/ https://www.pewforum.org/2021/01/14/measuring-religion-in-pe... [4]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europa#Statistik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Europa#Statistik [5]: https://www.bpb.de/internationales/asien/indien/44418/muslime-in-indien https://www.bpb.de/internationales/asien/indien/44418/muslim... [6]: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/the-great-replacement-an-explainer https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/the-great-replac...
  - dharmach 5y ago
    It is not about plain fertility rate but tipping of demographic balance between communities by various means. It can create pockets of Muslim majority in countries where they are minority and then "right to self-determination" means partitions.

test43523 5y ago