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a) Billions of doses of vaccines have been administered. We know a lot about their effectiveness. b) Current vaccines with a booster are effective at preventin

a) Billions of doses of vaccines have been administered. We know a lot about their effectiveness. b) Current vaccines with a booster are effective at preventing hospitalisations. It is enough to get the world through Omicron but special vaccines maybe useful for those who are immuno-compromised. c) Children have been forced to take vaccines for decades. It's not new. d) People trust their government every day. Who do you think builds the roads, operates the hospitals and other essential services, sets out safety regulations etc.

andrei_says_ 5y ago
In the US hospitals are private, charge astronomical amounts for the tiniest things and their price lists are secret. It is horrifying, brutal, inhumane. Also hospitals intentionally understaff, and pay their staff the absolute minimum while paying millions and millions to their CEOs. In addition to recommending procedures treatments and drugs as profit maximizers.
- yucky 5y ago
  >Also hospitals intentionally understaff, and pay their staff the absolute minimum Nurses and doctors make more in the US than any other country. Are you referring to other support staff?
  - andrei_says_ 5y ago
    Is it difficult to imagine that U.S. nurses can be paid better than nurses in other countries but at the same time not paid well enough and exploited beyond their breaking point? A bit of context: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/opinion/nurses-staffing-hospitals-covid-19.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/opinion/nurses-staffing-h... Here's a response by an anonymous staff member at LA's Children's Hospital: ( https://old.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/s7wfqo/we_know_the_real_cause_of_the_crisis_in_our/htcjyc7/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/s7wfqo/we_know_... ) Summary: Hospitals cut costs by staffing the bare minimum. Patients aren’t receiving the care the should be. Nurses are experiencing moral distress and leaving en masse. I work at CHLA. We are losing experienced nurses due to the lowest wages in the LA area for the level of care we give. Shameful for a hospital that is Best Children’s Hospital in the west. The pay discrepancy between the executives and staff is criminal We need more publicity about this. Help the nurses out and let’s get more eyes on this issue, particularly CHLA. Celebrities love that place and use it for PR often. Let’s give the nurses some badly needed PR. They are non-union and notoriously underpaid. Best care for kids maybe but also best kept secret in worker’s dissatisfaction
polishdude20 5y ago
I mean, d) is sort of a bad reason. Consider this is probably what the USSR said to it's citizens when communism was killing millions of people.
Vthrowaway153 5y ago
> Current vaccines with a booster are effective at preventing hospitalisations From the second part of the article: > Meanwhile, the latest research from South Africa, New York City and California show that the vast majority of people hospitalised by the COVID-19 Omicron variant are unvaccinated – but that they still experienced less severe disease than those infected with Delta. Comparing the 3rd and 4th waves in SA, hospitalizations dropped by 72%, ICU admissions dropped by 89%, and deaths dropped by 90% in South Africa even though, per the article, "82% of those hospitalised during its Omicron-fueled fourth wave were unvaccinated." Similar trends are being seen everywhere so I think it's legitimate to question the magnitude of any benefit from boosters vis-a-vis the hospitalization endpoint, particularly for people who are not in high-risk groups. Are the boosters really responsible for a meaningful reduction in hospitalizations among the already vaccinated, or is the reduction in hospitalization a result of the initial 2-dose vaccine series? Even the WHO casts doubt on the boosters here[1]: > To date, the evidence indicates a minimal to modest reduction of vaccine protection against severe disease over the 6 months after the primary series. Waning of effectiveness against all clinical disease and infection is more pronounced. Antibodies aren't the end-all and be-all of immunity and protection. There's plenty of reason to believe (and some data showing) that the cell-mediated immunity from the initial 2 shots is long lasting and provides substantial protection against bad outcomes, even against omicron. What cell-mediated immunity doesn't do is prevent you from getting infected. But, clearly, given the situation in places like the US and Israel, where boosters are being given, antibodies generated by original vaccine boosters aren't doing a great job at preventing infection either. On a tangential note, I think a lot of people are concerned about long COVID but it's pretty remarkable that at this stage of the pandemic and vaccination campaign, we still don't have a clear answer as to whether vaccination even reduces long COVID risk, or by how much[2]. [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-on-booster-doses-for-covid-19-vaccination---update-22-december-2021 https://www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-o... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2
landemva 5y ago
MSHA has no Covid mandates, including virus masks. Having worked at sites regulated by MSHA, I respect their safety mandates. OSHA is ineffective and now politicized. UL tests electrical devices for safety. I would prefer more voluntary certification and testing organizations. The roads in my town are owned by the property owners, as it should be.
deezleguy 5y ago
> d) People trust their government every day. Who do you think builds the roads, operates the hospitals and other essential services, sets out safety regulations etc. If they are going to take my money , I expect at least _something_ of benefit to me in return. That doesn’t mean I trust them.

andrei_says_ 5y ago

In the US hospitals are private, charge astronomical amounts for the tiniest things and their price lists are secret. It is horrifying, brutal, inhumane. Also hospitals intentionally understaff, and pay their staff the absolute minimum while paying millions and millions to their CEOs. In addition to recommending procedures treatments and drugs as profit maximizers.

yucky 5y ago
>Also hospitals intentionally understaff, and pay their staff the absolute minimum Nurses and doctors make more in the US than any other country. Are you referring to other support staff?
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  Is it difficult to imagine that U.S. nurses can be paid better than nurses in other countries but at the same time not paid well enough and exploited beyond their breaking point? A bit of context: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/opinion/nurses-staffing-hospitals-covid-19.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/opinion/nurses-staffing-h... Here's a response by an anonymous staff member at LA's Children's Hospital: ( https://old.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/s7wfqo/we_know_the_real_cause_of_the_crisis_in_our/htcjyc7/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/s7wfqo/we_know_... ) Summary: Hospitals cut costs by staffing the bare minimum. Patients aren’t receiving the care the should be. Nurses are experiencing moral distress and leaving en masse. I work at CHLA. We are losing experienced nurses due to the lowest wages in the LA area for the level of care we give. Shameful for a hospital that is Best Children’s Hospital in the west. The pay discrepancy between the executives and staff is criminal We need more publicity about this. Help the nurses out and let’s get more eyes on this issue, particularly CHLA. Celebrities love that place and use it for PR often. Let’s give the nurses some badly needed PR. They are non-union and notoriously underpaid. Best care for kids maybe but also best kept secret in worker’s dissatisfaction

polishdude20 5y ago

I mean, d) is sort of a bad reason. Consider this is probably what the USSR said to it's citizens when communism was killing millions of people.

Vthrowaway153 5y ago

> Current vaccines with a booster are effective at preventing hospitalisations From the second part of the article: > Meanwhile, the latest research from South Africa, New York City and California show that the vast majority of people hospitalised by the COVID-19 Omicron variant are unvaccinated – but that they still experienced less severe disease than those infected with Delta. Comparing the 3rd and 4th waves in SA, hospitalizations dropped by 72%, ICU admissions dropped by 89%, and deaths dropped by 90% in South Africa even though, per the article, "82% of those hospitalised during its Omicron-fueled fourth wave were unvaccinated." Similar trends are being seen everywhere so I think it's legitimate to question the magnitude of any benefit from boosters vis-a-vis the hospitalization endpoint, particularly for people who are not in high-risk groups. Are the boosters really responsible for a meaningful reduction in hospitalizations among the already vaccinated, or is the reduction in hospitalization a result of the initial 2-dose vaccine series? Even the WHO casts doubt on the boosters here[1]: > To date, the evidence indicates a minimal to modest reduction of vaccine protection against severe disease over the 6 months after the primary series. Waning of effectiveness against all clinical disease and infection is more pronounced. Antibodies aren't the end-all and be-all of immunity and protection. There's plenty of reason to believe (and some data showing) that the cell-mediated immunity from the initial 2 shots is long lasting and provides substantial protection against bad outcomes, even against omicron. What cell-mediated immunity doesn't do is prevent you from getting infected. But, clearly, given the situation in places like the US and Israel, where boosters are being given, antibodies generated by original vaccine boosters aren't doing a great job at preventing infection either. On a tangential note, I think a lot of people are concerned about long COVID but it's pretty remarkable that at this stage of the pandemic and vaccination campaign, we still don't have a clear answer as to whether vaccination even reduces long COVID risk, or by how much[2]. [1] https://www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-on-booster-doses-for-covid-19-vaccination---update-22-december-2021 https://www.who.int/news/item/22-12-2021-interim-statement-o... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2

landemva 5y ago

MSHA has no Covid mandates, including virus masks. Having worked at sites regulated by MSHA, I respect their safety mandates. OSHA is ineffective and now politicized. UL tests electrical devices for safety. I would prefer more voluntary certification and testing organizations. The roads in my town are owned by the property owners, as it should be.

deezleguy 5y ago

> d) People trust their government every day. Who do you think builds the roads, operates the hospitals and other essential services, sets out safety regulations etc. If they are going to take my money , I expect at least _something_ of benefit to me in return. That doesn’t mean I trust them.