6 ms·

In more recent news, this tech https://handshake.org/ https://handshake.org/ is aimed at this kind of jurisdictional issue. Limiting the reach of a US court or

by drubio 5y ago

In more recent news, this tech https://handshake.org/ https://handshake.org/ is aimed at this kind of jurisdictional issue. Limiting the reach of a US court or any other central org for that matter at shutting down a domain .com, .net or other.

easrng 5y ago
Handshake is awful. Because they decided to allow anyone to register a TLD there's no way to determine if a name needs to be resolved with handshake other than trying to resolve it.
- rasengan 5y ago
  There was a time when some used /etc/hosts whilst others used DNS. It was definitely a different time. Resolution issues with Handshake TLDs will easily be solved in time. There are, however, other reasons why one might think Handshake isn't up to par just yet. Those reasons might be, for example, even though it completes the internet, making it significantly more secure and sovereign, the current implementations including DANE aren't as fast. Of course, this too [1] will be addressed with time. There are highly technical people working on these problems with a heavy lean on making sure the experience is comparable if not better than today's expected experience. I think things will only get better from here. [1] https://github.com/handshake-org/HIPs/discussions/44 https://github.com/handshake-org/HIPs/discussions/44
- drubio 5y ago
  Interesting, I had no idea they were letting anyone register data, I had initially thought the idea was for registrars to provide nodes & data to eventually phase out the current DNS architecture, ensuring no single TLD org could wipe out a domain. The Handshake design still seems like a step in the right direction, but even with sound data, it's probably years away (if ever) for DNS resolution to "flip the switch" to use this kind of architecture.
- salawat 5y ago
  See, this is an interesting problem. Seems like you might be caught on the infinite abstraction escalator though, as who will manage the DNSNS (Domain Name Service NameSpaces) servers, and who'll take the onus for making the standard selector or display for the user to decide which lookup to consider canon for the request? This would actually be a pretty exciting development. This would greatly complicate domain squatting (or maybe intensify/arms race it), and add a layer of resilience in the form of building up the interfaces required for users to maintain their own private DNS namespaces. This would conclusively shut the door in terms of centralized seizability of domains, since the user would in effect be empowered to be their own registrar. You could even keep the traditional stuff seizable I guess. However, you'd be able to ask the fellow down the street if he still had the old DNS entry for x.y.z
- Ajedi32 5y ago
  Yeah, IMO they should have gone the Tor route and registered `.hs` or something with ICANN and then made all Handshake domains a subdomain of that. That'd have made it way easier for software to support Handshake without breaking compatibility with traditional DNS roots.
walrus01 5y ago
yet another alternate root DNS that has maybe 0.001% of install base on the global scale of client devices with browsers? yeah okay seen it for 20 years now...
- jiveturkey 5y ago
  wow, that's generous. more like 1x10-12, if that .001% would be absolutely enormous, and the actual start of a thing. the design and use case of it looks laughable to me. however, it does spark the imagination.
  - walrus01 5y ago
    yeah that was overly charitable, reality would be more like 0.00000001% of client devices. considering we now have several billion internet using cellphones and people globally.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Not that it's going to do any better but more relevant figure is the percentage of routers... those client devices just accept configuration from the upstream network.
jedberg 5y ago
The only way an alternate TLD registrar will ever take off is if you get the people who own the current root servers on board. And the only way that will happen is if you figure out how they can make money from owning and operating the root servers. My guess is that if you create a blockchain for registering DNS, and only the current registrars can issue coins on said blockchain, you might have a solution they would be willing to implement. You'd still have to pay them money to register a new domain or maintain it, but once you had the coin, you could register whatever you wanted and no government could stop you.
- rasengan 5y ago
  Those servers are only necessary for the ICANN tlds and those will continue to act as they do today, even in a Handshake future. With Handshake, you run your own authoritative server (or use a hosted one) for your own name and that authoritative server's information will be obtainable on chain. No middle-man, no rent seeking.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    I understand how handshake works. What I'm saying is that getting my mom to point her DNS servers at an alternate server is a non-starter. You have to get the root servers on board to carry all TLDs or most people will never find them.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      But then the root servers can still be used to censor domains by removing them.
      - jedberg 5y ago
        They aren't all in the US. Right now they remove a .com by telling Verisign, a US company, to change the registration for the .com. Since Verisign is the only way to change a .com, it works. Many root servers operate outside of the US. If the blockchain were the authority on IP addresses, then even if they blocked the US roots the others would still have it. Even today if all the US root servers go off-line every system would find the others and use them.
dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
Thank you for sharing. > even gnutella became The Pirate Bay. Never thought about that.
democracy 5y ago
>> github developers with over 15 followers on February 2019 ...I am wondering if it must also be a javascript project...
superkuh 5y ago
- rasengan 5y ago
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    I mean Andrew Lee did drive away all of the communities that were on freenode.
    - rasengan 5y ago
      Depends on if you look at it based on a narrative that the former-staff wanted people to hear, or if you base it on the truth [1][2]. Specifically, this person states that I was in a position to "abuse my power" at freenode, such would mean that the statements he and others made in the past saying I had nothing to do with freenode until I "came in with lawyers" untrue, no? It's probably not worth spending cycles to research, but I'll leave these links if you're interested. That said, a person simply can't defeat the cryptographically secured names of Handshake, so even if I was the boogie man, unless I have found the One Piece of Quantum CPU and harnessed its chakra[3], I'd be hard-pressed in fulfilling the boogie man role. ;) [1] https://old.freenode.net/static/files/on-freenode.pdf https://old.freenode.net/static/files/on-freenode.pdf [2] https://news.itsfoss.com/freenode-controversy/ https://news.itsfoss.com/freenode-controversy/ [3] intentionally put chakra and not haki here to make that more playful.
      - judge2020 5y ago
        I imagine less people left because of the "cries" and more because of the _actual_ hostile channel takeovers?[0][1] Not even mentioning the blocking of IRCCloud users [2] and not handling GDPR requests, despite servers and users in the EU [3]. 0: https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse 1: https://redd.it/nyp855 https://redd.it/nyp855 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495358 3: https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1407790283308240897/photo/1 https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1407790283308240897/photo/1

by drubio 5y ago

easrng 5y ago

Handshake is awful. Because they decided to allow anyone to register a TLD there's no way to determine if a name needs to be resolved with handshake other than trying to resolve it.

rasengan 5y ago
There was a time when some used /etc/hosts whilst others used DNS. It was definitely a different time. Resolution issues with Handshake TLDs will easily be solved in time. There are, however, other reasons why one might think Handshake isn't up to par just yet. Those reasons might be, for example, even though it completes the internet, making it significantly more secure and sovereign, the current implementations including DANE aren't as fast. Of course, this too [1] will be addressed with time. There are highly technical people working on these problems with a heavy lean on making sure the experience is comparable if not better than today's expected experience. I think things will only get better from here. [1] https://github.com/handshake-org/HIPs/discussions/44 https://github.com/handshake-org/HIPs/discussions/44
drubio 5y ago
Interesting, I had no idea they were letting anyone register data, I had initially thought the idea was for registrars to provide nodes & data to eventually phase out the current DNS architecture, ensuring no single TLD org could wipe out a domain. The Handshake design still seems like a step in the right direction, but even with sound data, it's probably years away (if ever) for DNS resolution to "flip the switch" to use this kind of architecture.
salawat 5y ago
See, this is an interesting problem. Seems like you might be caught on the infinite abstraction escalator though, as who will manage the DNSNS (Domain Name Service NameSpaces) servers, and who'll take the onus for making the standard selector or display for the user to decide which lookup to consider canon for the request? This would actually be a pretty exciting development. This would greatly complicate domain squatting (or maybe intensify/arms race it), and add a layer of resilience in the form of building up the interfaces required for users to maintain their own private DNS namespaces. This would conclusively shut the door in terms of centralized seizability of domains, since the user would in effect be empowered to be their own registrar. You could even keep the traditional stuff seizable I guess. However, you'd be able to ask the fellow down the street if he still had the old DNS entry for x.y.z
Ajedi32 5y ago
Yeah, IMO they should have gone the Tor route and registered `.hs` or something with ICANN and then made all Handshake domains a subdomain of that. That'd have made it way easier for software to support Handshake without breaking compatibility with traditional DNS roots.

walrus01 5y ago

yet another alternate root DNS that has maybe 0.001% of install base on the global scale of client devices with browsers? yeah okay seen it for 20 years now...

jiveturkey 5y ago
wow, that's generous. more like 1x10-12, if that .001% would be absolutely enormous, and the actual start of a thing. the design and use case of it looks laughable to me. however, it does spark the imagination.
- walrus01 5y ago
  yeah that was overly charitable, reality would be more like 0.00000001% of client devices. considering we now have several billion internet using cellphones and people globally.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    Not that it's going to do any better but more relevant figure is the percentage of routers... those client devices just accept configuration from the upstream network.

jedberg 5y ago

The only way an alternate TLD registrar will ever take off is if you get the people who own the current root servers on board. And the only way that will happen is if you figure out how they can make money from owning and operating the root servers. My guess is that if you create a blockchain for registering DNS, and only the current registrars can issue coins on said blockchain, you might have a solution they would be willing to implement. You'd still have to pay them money to register a new domain or maintain it, but once you had the coin, you could register whatever you wanted and no government could stop you.

rasengan 5y ago
Those servers are only necessary for the ICANN tlds and those will continue to act as they do today, even in a Handshake future. With Handshake, you run your own authoritative server (or use a hosted one) for your own name and that authoritative server's information will be obtainable on chain. No middle-man, no rent seeking.
- jedberg 5y ago
  I understand how handshake works. What I'm saying is that getting my mom to point her DNS servers at an alternate server is a non-starter. You have to get the root servers on board to carry all TLDs or most people will never find them.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    But then the root servers can still be used to censor domains by removing them.
    - jedberg 5y ago
      They aren't all in the US. Right now they remove a .com by telling Verisign, a US company, to change the registration for the .com. Since Verisign is the only way to change a .com, it works. Many root servers operate outside of the US. If the blockchain were the authority on IP addresses, then even if they blocked the US roots the others would still have it. Even today if all the US root servers go off-line every system would find the others and use them.

dmitryminkovsky 5y ago

Thank you for sharing. > even gnutella became The Pirate Bay. Never thought about that.

democracy 5y ago

>> github developers with over 15 followers on February 2019 ...I am wondering if it must also be a javascript project...

superkuh 5y ago

rasengan 5y ago
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  I mean Andrew Lee did drive away all of the communities that were on freenode.
  - rasengan 5y ago
    Depends on if you look at it based on a narrative that the former-staff wanted people to hear, or if you base it on the truth [1][2]. Specifically, this person states that I was in a position to "abuse my power" at freenode, such would mean that the statements he and others made in the past saying I had nothing to do with freenode until I "came in with lawyers" untrue, no? It's probably not worth spending cycles to research, but I'll leave these links if you're interested. That said, a person simply can't defeat the cryptographically secured names of Handshake, so even if I was the boogie man, unless I have found the One Piece of Quantum CPU and harnessed its chakra[3], I'd be hard-pressed in fulfilling the boogie man role. ;) [1] https://old.freenode.net/static/files/on-freenode.pdf https://old.freenode.net/static/files/on-freenode.pdf [2] https://news.itsfoss.com/freenode-controversy/ https://news.itsfoss.com/freenode-controversy/ [3] intentionally put chakra and not haki here to make that more playful.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      I imagine less people left because of the "cries" and more because of the _actual_ hostile channel takeovers?[0][1] Not even mentioning the blocking of IRCCloud users [2] and not handling GDPR requests, despite servers and users in the EU [3]. 0: https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse 1: https://redd.it/nyp855 https://redd.it/nyp855 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27495358 3: https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1407790283308240897/photo/1 https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1407790283308240897/photo/1