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> But how do you handle configuration then ? In the main method, then you can pass the configured values wherever you need to when new-ing classes. > At some

> But how do you handle configuration then ? In the main method, then you can pass the configured values wherever you need to when new-ing classes. > At some point you want a user-facing UI where the available features (which are generally classes) are listed and the user can choose the feature, say which log backend is enabled, without having to change code - that's the whole point of it. (And the most tedious code to write by hand - a complete waste of time) I consider DI a valuable pattern, but I've never experienced anything close to this need.

kaba0 5y ago
What happens with proxied classes? My ClassWithTransactions is actually a subclass of the written one auto-generated by Spring. I can’t inject a new instance of that manually. And you may say that you don’t need Aspect Oriented programming, but the usual handling of transactions in many other languages without some meta-programming is.. to not handle transactions. Putting a single annotation over a method is imo a very elegant way to handle this needed functionality.
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  This is all considerably more abstraction than I have wanted or needed when writing Java. When handling transactions, I’ve passed around the same connection before committing.
  - kaba0 5y ago
    The point of the transaction in this context is that both the database(s) and the business logic/state stay in sync. I don’t think that naive attempts will be logically correct.
    - pgwhalen 5y ago
      What do you consider naive? JDBC supports transactions, I’ve had success with that.
      - kaba0 5y ago
        As I mentioned, you will have to roll back not only the database, but the relevant application state as well. This is really error-prone if repeated enough times, or the flow of control is through many different methods, etc.
        pgwhalen 5y ago
        By application state, do you mean something like an in memory cache? I would prefer having no such state in the first place, and have all meaningful state in the DB to be pulled out or mutated as needed. I recognize that what you’re advocating for makes of sense in some applications, I just wanted to point out that I haven’t felt the need for it in my eight years of software development.
jcelerier 5y ago
> I consider DI a valuable pattern, but I've never experienced anything close to this need. Literally every non-toy software I had to develop in my life required that lol
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  Do you seriously allow users to configure which logging framework is used through a UI? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.
  - jcelerier 5y ago
    in my case it's more often which audio, gamepad or graphics backend but yes, I actually had the log backend configuration request once ! (wanted to choose to log stuff in text files or websockets depending on the case, for a GUI app ; there was an explicit requirement that the entire software could be configured and used with only a mouse, no keyboard so many configuration menus were needed)

kaba0 5y ago

What happens with proxied classes? My ClassWithTransactions is actually a subclass of the written one auto-generated by Spring. I can’t inject a new instance of that manually. And you may say that you don’t need Aspect Oriented programming, but the usual handling of transactions in many other languages without some meta-programming is.. to not handle transactions. Putting a single annotation over a method is imo a very elegant way to handle this needed functionality.

pgwhalen 5y ago
This is all considerably more abstraction than I have wanted or needed when writing Java. When handling transactions, I’ve passed around the same connection before committing.
- kaba0 5y ago
  The point of the transaction in this context is that both the database(s) and the business logic/state stay in sync. I don’t think that naive attempts will be logically correct.
  - pgwhalen 5y ago
    What do you consider naive? JDBC supports transactions, I’ve had success with that.
    - kaba0 5y ago
      As I mentioned, you will have to roll back not only the database, but the relevant application state as well. This is really error-prone if repeated enough times, or the flow of control is through many different methods, etc.
      - pgwhalen 5y ago
        By application state, do you mean something like an in memory cache? I would prefer having no such state in the first place, and have all meaningful state in the DB to be pulled out or mutated as needed. I recognize that what you’re advocating for makes of sense in some applications, I just wanted to point out that I haven’t felt the need for it in my eight years of software development.

jcelerier 5y ago

> I consider DI a valuable pattern, but I've never experienced anything close to this need. Literally every non-toy software I had to develop in my life required that lol

pgwhalen 5y ago
Do you seriously allow users to configure which logging framework is used through a UI? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  in my case it's more often which audio, gamepad or graphics backend but yes, I actually had the log backend configuration request once ! (wanted to choose to log stuff in text files or websockets depending on the case, for a GUI app ; there was an explicit requirement that the entire software could be configured and used with only a mouse, no keyboard so many configuration menus were needed)