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If your point is that by celebrating him today we're celebrating the entirety of his work, please consider a day like Presidents day. We celebrate Washington's

If your point is that by celebrating him today we're celebrating the entirety of his work, please consider a day like Presidents day. We celebrate Washington's birthday despite him having been a slave owner. If you think that it's impossible to compartmentalize people, so be it. If you think that the reason we venerate MLK is in part due to his contributions to socialism, and that's what he means to you, so be it. I'm capable of compartmentalizing, and the reason I choose to venerate Dr. King on this day are for his contributions towards moving us towards liberalism and color-blindness. You seem to think that means that I'm "using him as a prop," whereas I simply find him to be an extremely important contribution to the advancement of civil rights, and feel entitled to celebrate that without having to celebrate the entirety of his beliefs.

ashtonkem 5y ago
> If your point is that by celebrating him today we're celebrating the entirety of his work, please consider a day like Presidents day. It's genuinely really funny that you thought that this would be a rebuttal. Based on this entire conversation, what do you think my opinion about President's Day is? I'll give you two guesses, first doesn't count. > We celebrate Washington's birthday despite him having been a slave owner. If you think that it's impossible to compartmentalize people, so be it. I think Washington is an even easier case to argue here than MLK. This isn't a simple case of not agreeing with every aspect of someone's entire body of work. This is a case of a man waxing poetic about freedom and the rights of man while at the same time engaging in crimes against humanity by buying and selling human beings as property. This fact isn't merely inconvenient, it bathes his life's work in a hypocrisy that is impossible to ignore. Personally I wish we didn't celebrate his birthday. I think in general it's a bad idea to put people on pedestals for a variety of reasons, including if they turn out to be monsters in some ways. For Washington this specifically puts us all in the invidious position of explaining why we're venerating a man who could look another human being in the eyes and then sell them off like property. > If you think that the reason we venerate MLK is in part due to his contributions to socialism, and that's what he means to you, so be it. I'm split on whether this is fantastically bad reading comprehension on your part, or a bad faith interpretation of what I've said. It's 50/50 for me. Because at no point did I indicate that MLK even made a contribution to socialism, or even that I thought he was a socialist. All of that is entirely a fabrication on your part, completely unsupported by what I said. My entire point is that I find it a bit sus that after MLK's death people only ever seem to engage with one very specific aspect of MLK's work and legacy, and it's I think the part that is selected is politically convenient for those in power. That's it. That's my entire point. > feel entitled to celebrate that without having to celebrate the entirety of his beliefs. Again, I never said you had to agree with everything that he said. You've made that up to get angry at me about.
- ralusek 5y ago
  > It's genuinely really funny that you thought that this would be a rebuttal I'm illustrating the examples under which people can be celebrated without celebrating the entirety of their person, understanding full well that you personally find this to be impossible or somehow hypocritical. Gandhi slept with underage girls and was a racist. MLK was cheating on his wife when he was killed. JFK frequently cheated on his wife, and his sister was lobotomized. The example of Presidents day is simply to illustrate that many (most) people are entirely capable of celebrating people as a token of a certain set of beliefs/virtues/behaviors that exists independently the of the whole historical person. I don't care who you celebrate or why, but you cannot go around inferring that people are somehow ignorant or hypocritical simply for venerating people in a differ manner than you do...particularly when you appear to be in the minority in this regard. > My entire point is that I find it a bit sus that after MLK's death people only ever seem to engage with one very specific aspect of MLK's work and legacy, and it's I think the part that is selected is politically convenient for those in power. That's it. That's my entire point. And MY entire point is that this is very often how most people celebrate the legacy of most figures.
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ashtonkem 5y ago

> If your point is that by celebrating him today we're celebrating the entirety of his work, please consider a day like Presidents day. It's genuinely really funny that you thought that this would be a rebuttal. Based on this entire conversation, what do you think my opinion about President's Day is? I'll give you two guesses, first doesn't count. > We celebrate Washington's birthday despite him having been a slave owner. If you think that it's impossible to compartmentalize people, so be it. I think Washington is an even easier case to argue here than MLK. This isn't a simple case of not agreeing with every aspect of someone's entire body of work. This is a case of a man waxing poetic about freedom and the rights of man while at the same time engaging in crimes against humanity by buying and selling human beings as property. This fact isn't merely inconvenient, it bathes his life's work in a hypocrisy that is impossible to ignore. Personally I wish we didn't celebrate his birthday. I think in general it's a bad idea to put people on pedestals for a variety of reasons, including if they turn out to be monsters in some ways. For Washington this specifically puts us all in the invidious position of explaining why we're venerating a man who could look another human being in the eyes and then sell them off like property. > If you think that the reason we venerate MLK is in part due to his contributions to socialism, and that's what he means to you, so be it. I'm split on whether this is fantastically bad reading comprehension on your part, or a bad faith interpretation of what I've said. It's 50/50 for me. Because at no point did I indicate that MLK even made a contribution to socialism, or even that I thought he was a socialist. All of that is entirely a fabrication on your part, completely unsupported by what I said. My entire point is that I find it a bit sus that after MLK's death people only ever seem to engage with one very specific aspect of MLK's work and legacy, and it's I think the part that is selected is politically convenient for those in power. That's it. That's my entire point. > feel entitled to celebrate that without having to celebrate the entirety of his beliefs. Again, I never said you had to agree with everything that he said. You've made that up to get angry at me about.

ralusek 5y ago
> It's genuinely really funny that you thought that this would be a rebuttal I'm illustrating the examples under which people can be celebrated without celebrating the entirety of their person, understanding full well that you personally find this to be impossible or somehow hypocritical. Gandhi slept with underage girls and was a racist. MLK was cheating on his wife when he was killed. JFK frequently cheated on his wife, and his sister was lobotomized. The example of Presidents day is simply to illustrate that many (most) people are entirely capable of celebrating people as a token of a certain set of beliefs/virtues/behaviors that exists independently the of the whole historical person. I don't care who you celebrate or why, but you cannot go around inferring that people are somehow ignorant or hypocritical simply for venerating people in a differ manner than you do...particularly when you appear to be in the minority in this regard. > My entire point is that I find it a bit sus that after MLK's death people only ever seem to engage with one very specific aspect of MLK's work and legacy, and it's I think the part that is selected is politically convenient for those in power. That's it. That's my entire point. And MY entire point is that this is very often how most people celebrate the legacy of most figures.
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