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> The main problem is that most of the facts we are taught in school are all just things that were read in a book or told by an authority figure. We don’t come

by awb 5y ago

> The main problem is that most of the facts we are taught in school are all just things that were read in a book or told by an authority figure. We don’t come to them from scientific investigations. I think it’s also a byproduct of having so much information persisted through generations. We want to “wow” students with the new, exciting information and end up skipping over or glossing over the “trivial” stuff that humans figured out a hundred or more years ago, treating it more like something to be memorized rather than discovered. And if you don’t memorize it (out of inability, or distrust in authority, etc.) then the conclusions might seem unbelievable. Imagine just seeing the last 10min of a movie, it would seem pretty confusing and unbelievable in many cases. But if you filmed the movie or edited it, it would probably seem pretty realistic and predictable.

NikolaNovak 5y ago
It's tricky. In my school system we ran experiments for the basics. Put balls and blocks down Inclines and dragged things over various surfaces and watched things swing for couple of semesters, then "figured out" and calculated results of experiments, until we got results we already knew we were looking for :-). I'm sure those experiments can be done in a fun and educational manner, I just haven't been privy to that. Maybe they come too late in North American system - they should've been done way way earlier in life. I was a total sucker for science but they fell flat even for me. For those who didn't have inherent interest they were even less engaging. I do agree that accumulated knowledge through generations is a factor. There's so much of it and we are so far removed from its inception and wonder
- roywiggins 5y ago
  I recall one "experiment" I had to do in a science class was literally "do the batteries wear out if you leave a flashlight on in a closet overnight". Turns out yes, they do. What a surprise. This was in middle school. What lesson this was supposed to impart was unclear, but the lesson it did impart was "your teacher thinks you're a moron who doesn't know how batteries behave." I think maybe a previous experiment hadn't worked properly and my teacher wanted one that definitely would and came up with this idea from scratch. It's totally possible to do this stuff well- I remember a pulleys-and-weights module another year that I liked- but when it's bad it's pretty bad.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    I think expectations we have of an age are indeed part of it. I started my education in Eastern Europe, and we got Physics and Biology as dedicated subjects in grade 5, with formulas and proofs etc. So when we did "inclined slope" in Canada in grade twelve, in what was for many their first true "Physics" class (and this was AP!), it did indeed feel like we were about 6-8 years too late. --- To reminisce and meander seemingly pointlessly on a personal anecdote - I remember reading "Ender's Game" when I was 18, and initially thinking "what BS, this guy doesn't know how to write kids, they all sound like adults!". And then realized... wait... that's exactly what I WAS thinking when I was a "kid". Kids don't think they think "like kids". We all think as humans. We have plans and schemes and wants and concerns and ponderings no matter the age. So whatever good bad and ugly there may be in Ender's Game specifically and Orson Scott Card generally, I like to remind myself as I raise my own two kids now, that we need to give children WAY more credit for capability of thinking than we sometimes do, on this continent in particular.

by awb 5y ago

NikolaNovak 5y ago

It's tricky. In my school system we ran experiments for the basics. Put balls and blocks down Inclines and dragged things over various surfaces and watched things swing for couple of semesters, then "figured out" and calculated results of experiments, until we got results we already knew we were looking for :-). I'm sure those experiments can be done in a fun and educational manner, I just haven't been privy to that. Maybe they come too late in North American system - they should've been done way way earlier in life. I was a total sucker for science but they fell flat even for me. For those who didn't have inherent interest they were even less engaging. I do agree that accumulated knowledge through generations is a factor. There's so much of it and we are so far removed from its inception and wonder

roywiggins 5y ago
I recall one "experiment" I had to do in a science class was literally "do the batteries wear out if you leave a flashlight on in a closet overnight". Turns out yes, they do. What a surprise. This was in middle school. What lesson this was supposed to impart was unclear, but the lesson it did impart was "your teacher thinks you're a moron who doesn't know how batteries behave." I think maybe a previous experiment hadn't worked properly and my teacher wanted one that definitely would and came up with this idea from scratch. It's totally possible to do this stuff well- I remember a pulleys-and-weights module another year that I liked- but when it's bad it's pretty bad.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  I think expectations we have of an age are indeed part of it. I started my education in Eastern Europe, and we got Physics and Biology as dedicated subjects in grade 5, with formulas and proofs etc. So when we did "inclined slope" in Canada in grade twelve, in what was for many their first true "Physics" class (and this was AP!), it did indeed feel like we were about 6-8 years too late. --- To reminisce and meander seemingly pointlessly on a personal anecdote - I remember reading "Ender's Game" when I was 18, and initially thinking "what BS, this guy doesn't know how to write kids, they all sound like adults!". And then realized... wait... that's exactly what I WAS thinking when I was a "kid". Kids don't think they think "like kids". We all think as humans. We have plans and schemes and wants and concerns and ponderings no matter the age. So whatever good bad and ugly there may be in Ender's Game specifically and Orson Scott Card generally, I like to remind myself as I raise my own two kids now, that we need to give children WAY more credit for capability of thinking than we sometimes do, on this continent in particular.