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When I look at various techniques used in special forces training in the United States -- waterboarding, hypothermia, near-drowning, psychological torutre, etc

When I look at various techniques used in special forces training in the United States -- waterboarding, hypothermia, near-drowning, psychological torutre, etc -- I'm left with the counter-intuitive observation that taking stuff away from people and making life really tough on them has a tendency to make them much more able to handle all the "normal" stuff that many times tangles up the rest of us. There might be something there which these schools could harvest.

onenine 15y ago
PTSD. Sorry. That training is about taking people out of civil society and giving them the ability to engage in behaviors that would give others (quite rightly) pause. This is not a place to look to generate well-rounded citizens that do not see violence as a way to manipulate others.
scott_s 15y ago
The primary "technique" that special forces training uses is just simple exhaustion. It's humbling how much being exhausted can make you re-asses your priorities - and even if you don't quit, you know that you wanted to. Being that exhausted and knowing that rest is nowhere near in your future can be psychologically devastating. The things you listed are probably used, but they're not the primary training method. I have never been in the military, but I've training Brazilian jiu-jitsu and some mixed martial arts for many years now. Practices can be tough.
- zwischenzug 15y ago
  s/special forces training uses/having children works on you/
rtperson 15y ago
> waterboarding, hypothermia, near-drowning, psychological torutre, etc Do yourself a favor and read Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery." You'll quickly understand why your counter-intuitive observation is simply wrong. These things work in special forces training in a way they never could and never will in prisons and hospitals.
thisrod 15y ago
The most effective schools do similar things, and call it "outdoor education". It's expensive, and I doubt there's much evidence about the long-term effects on the students. I'd guess they don't take it far enough to be useful. When people first experience cold, hunger, fear and exhaustion, most focus on their suffering, and feel helpless. You can learn to take the discomfort for granted, focus on your actions, and feel proud. That takes more experience and mentoring than the average student gets. Also, being able to handle the normal stuff is good, but not caring about it at all is bad, and the middle ground can be hard to find. Tim Winton's novel, Breath, develops that idea.

onenine 15y ago

PTSD. Sorry. That training is about taking people out of civil society and giving them the ability to engage in behaviors that would give others (quite rightly) pause. This is not a place to look to generate well-rounded citizens that do not see violence as a way to manipulate others.

scott_s 15y ago

The primary "technique" that special forces training uses is just simple exhaustion. It's humbling how much being exhausted can make you re-asses your priorities - and even if you don't quit, you know that you wanted to. Being that exhausted and knowing that rest is nowhere near in your future can be psychologically devastating. The things you listed are probably used, but they're not the primary training method. I have never been in the military, but I've training Brazilian jiu-jitsu and some mixed martial arts for many years now. Practices can be tough.

zwischenzug 15y ago
s/special forces training uses/having children works on you/

rtperson 15y ago

> waterboarding, hypothermia, near-drowning, psychological torutre, etc Do yourself a favor and read Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery." You'll quickly understand why your counter-intuitive observation is simply wrong. These things work in special forces training in a way they never could and never will in prisons and hospitals.

thisrod 15y ago

The most effective schools do similar things, and call it "outdoor education". It's expensive, and I doubt there's much evidence about the long-term effects on the students. I'd guess they don't take it far enough to be useful. When people first experience cold, hunger, fear and exhaustion, most focus on their suffering, and feel helpless. You can learn to take the discomfort for granted, focus on your actions, and feel proud. That takes more experience and mentoring than the average student gets. Also, being able to handle the normal stuff is good, but not caring about it at all is bad, and the middle ground can be hard to find. Tim Winton's novel, Breath, develops that idea.