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Call me when dragon has gone to space as many times as the shuttle and we'll compare safety records, thanks.

hga 15y ago
Nope, long before it first launched we knew the Shuttle was a shoddy design: The SRBs saved money on development but are very bad for human flight, you want engines you can turn off. The insane fragile tile and leading edge heat protection, all to satisfy a "requirement" the Air Force didn't care about, a Vandenburg single orbit polar mission (to return to the same spot on Earth while it's rotated under you requires serious maneuvering using your initial high energy state). No crew escape system after the first few test flights with only pilot and co-pilot, who had SR-71 class ejection seats (the best available). The state of the art of "rocket science" simply isn't good enough to forgo this. Since then we've learned from the two fatal missions: The SRB joints were grossly misdesigned, forcing their O-rings to seal on expansion (any of us who've worked with a faucet or shower head know how terribly wrong this is). Especially after it was made in a more "green" fashion, the fuel tank sheds ice and insulation chucks with sufficient momentum to destroy the above mentioned fragile heat protection systems. That's all that immediately comes to mind, and I've already pointed out one Ares I inherited potentially fatal design flaw in the Senate Launch System. How many obvious design flaws can you or anyone else point out in SpaceX's systems? (I don't know, I haven't been closely following them.)
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  I'm aware of the shuttles limitations and the politics behind them, but the Soyuz system isn't any safer. I'm just skeptical of this sudden "ZOMG DRAGONX SAFETY WILL BE AWESOME" assumption that so many pro-privatization types seem to have. Considering how many times their rockets have blown up already perhaps its best to be not drawing any conclusions thus far.
  - ugh 15y ago
    Whut? Soyuz has a better safety record.
    - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
      Not by much. Seems like we've hit a limit of human engineering at least for the technology at that time. The idea that you can do loads better than NASA or the Russian program, safety wise, is a pretty big claim, especially considering that the Falcon series has blown up more than it hasn't.
      - nknight 15y ago
        > the Falcon series has blown up more than it hasn't. No, it hasn't. Falcon 1 has launched 5 times. The first three failed -- in likely-survivable ways. None just "blew up". The next two were successful.[1] Falcon 9 has flown twice, both successful.[2] 7 launches, 4 successes, 3 survivable failures. Your statement is objectively false. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_1_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_1_launches [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launches_and_scheduled_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launches_and_scheduled...
        drzaiusapelord 15y ago
        Whoops, I thought it was 5 out of 7. So wait, you're applauding 4 out of 7 successes? Really? Look, its obvious that its too early to decide one way or another but thats a fucking rocky start to anyone who isn't a fanboy blinded by whatever allure SpaceX has. Also the disagree downvotes make you look bad. HN is turning into reddit/digg. What a shame.
        nknight 15y ago
        Your ad hominem attacks are tiring, and in light of your apparent hatred of reddit/digg, reveal a nasty case of projection. So I'll just leave you with some early US and Soviet launch records. If you still feel like debating the matter, I suggest searching YouTube for launch failures first. There are some rather spectacular videos of rockets that actually did explode, sometimes right on the pad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(1957-1959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(1957-19... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R-7_launches_(1957-1959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R-7_launches_(1957-1959... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thor_and_Delta_launches_(1957%E2%80%931959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thor_and_Delta_launches... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Titan_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Titan_launches

hga 15y ago

Nope, long before it first launched we knew the Shuttle was a shoddy design: The SRBs saved money on development but are very bad for human flight, you want engines you can turn off. The insane fragile tile and leading edge heat protection, all to satisfy a "requirement" the Air Force didn't care about, a Vandenburg single orbit polar mission (to return to the same spot on Earth while it's rotated under you requires serious maneuvering using your initial high energy state). No crew escape system after the first few test flights with only pilot and co-pilot, who had SR-71 class ejection seats (the best available). The state of the art of "rocket science" simply isn't good enough to forgo this. Since then we've learned from the two fatal missions: The SRB joints were grossly misdesigned, forcing their O-rings to seal on expansion (any of us who've worked with a faucet or shower head know how terribly wrong this is). Especially after it was made in a more "green" fashion, the fuel tank sheds ice and insulation chucks with sufficient momentum to destroy the above mentioned fragile heat protection systems. That's all that immediately comes to mind, and I've already pointed out one Ares I inherited potentially fatal design flaw in the Senate Launch System. How many obvious design flaws can you or anyone else point out in SpaceX's systems? (I don't know, I haven't been closely following them.)

drzaiusapelord 15y ago
I'm aware of the shuttles limitations and the politics behind them, but the Soyuz system isn't any safer. I'm just skeptical of this sudden "ZOMG DRAGONX SAFETY WILL BE AWESOME" assumption that so many pro-privatization types seem to have. Considering how many times their rockets have blown up already perhaps its best to be not drawing any conclusions thus far.
- ugh 15y ago
  Whut? Soyuz has a better safety record.
  - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
    Not by much. Seems like we've hit a limit of human engineering at least for the technology at that time. The idea that you can do loads better than NASA or the Russian program, safety wise, is a pretty big claim, especially considering that the Falcon series has blown up more than it hasn't.
    - nknight 15y ago
      > the Falcon series has blown up more than it hasn't. No, it hasn't. Falcon 1 has launched 5 times. The first three failed -- in likely-survivable ways. None just "blew up". The next two were successful.[1] Falcon 9 has flown twice, both successful.[2] 7 launches, 4 successes, 3 survivable failures. Your statement is objectively false. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_1_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_1_launches [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launches_and_scheduled_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9#Launches_and_scheduled...
      - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
        Whoops, I thought it was 5 out of 7. So wait, you're applauding 4 out of 7 successes? Really? Look, its obvious that its too early to decide one way or another but thats a fucking rocky start to anyone who isn't a fanboy blinded by whatever allure SpaceX has. Also the disagree downvotes make you look bad. HN is turning into reddit/digg. What a shame.
        nknight 15y ago
        Your ad hominem attacks are tiring, and in light of your apparent hatred of reddit/digg, reveal a nasty case of projection. So I'll just leave you with some early US and Soviet launch records. If you still feel like debating the matter, I suggest searching YouTube for launch failures first. There are some rather spectacular videos of rockets that actually did explode, sometimes right on the pad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(1957-1959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(1957-19... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R-7_launches_(1957-1959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_R-7_launches_(1957-1959... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thor_and_Delta_launches_(1957%E2%80%931959) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thor_and_Delta_launches... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Titan_launches http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Titan_launches