5 ms·

I think the point is that you can hate Frank Miller's work without hating all comics.

by taeric 5y ago

tptacek 5y ago
The author probably didn't even write the headline, which is the only place that sentiment appears in the piece. I'm pretty confident she's aware of Love and Rockets, Bone, and Maus. Maybe it's helpful just to mentally substitute "superhero comics" for "comics".
- taeric 5y ago
  Fair. Though, I suspect some super hero comics are fine. I am also ok with the thought that that earlier exposure clouds all later exposure. I am further ok with someone not liking comics. Or super hero stories.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    That seems like the interesting discussion to have, right? Whether there are superhero comics that confound Miller-ism. I can't really think of any, though maybe early-1990s X-Men, which had a palpable subtext about bigotry long before that was a super trendy idea (making the series antagonist himself an opponent of bigotry was a pretty slick move).
    - taeric 5y ago
      Sandman stands in my mind. Though, most folks don't think of those as super hero. I think most of that is definitionally, though. If you accept that super hero comics are bad, you probably consider any good ones to not be super hero. Edit: that said, Gaiman's Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader is undeniably a super hero comic. Complete with an amazing call out to Goodnight Moon. Edit2: Perez's Wonder Woman set is highly regarded, I think. In many ways more feminist than current works, from my memory.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        It's so not a superhero comic that DC actually came up with a new imprint for it and Hellblazer. It was, very briefly, a Moore-style sendup of superhero comics ("sleep, and if you wish, you may dream of the city of focative mirrors"), but shed that almost immediately when Gaiman got his footing. But like, I stopped reading superhero comics pretty quickly (I got to comics late, with Punisher [gag] and X-Men, and switched within like a year to the Vertigo/Cerebus/Comix stuff). So for all I know, there's a long "Aquaman" arc where he subtextually confronts misogyny or contemplates Rawlsianism. "Wonder Woman" is a good example! Thanks!
        taeric 5y ago
        My only qualm is that I feel that is shifting definitions. I'm reminded of folks calling what Gaiman writes as graphic novels, not comics. Which... Seems silly. Especially since I remember buying them, as comics.

I think the point is that you can hate Frank Miller's work without hating all comics.

by taeric 5y ago

I think the point is that you can hate Frank Miller's work without hating all comics.

The author probably didn't even write the headline, which is the only place that sentiment appears in the piece. I'm pretty confident she's aware of Love and Rockets, Bone, and Maus. Maybe it's helpful just to mentally substitute "superhero comics" for "comics".

taeric 5y ago
Fair. Though, I suspect some super hero comics are fine. I am also ok with the thought that that earlier exposure clouds all later exposure. I am further ok with someone not liking comics. Or super hero stories.
- tptacek 5y ago
  That seems like the interesting discussion to have, right? Whether there are superhero comics that confound Miller-ism. I can't really think of any, though maybe early-1990s X-Men, which had a palpable subtext about bigotry long before that was a super trendy idea (making the series antagonist himself an opponent of bigotry was a pretty slick move).
  - taeric 5y ago
    Sandman stands in my mind. Though, most folks don't think of those as super hero. I think most of that is definitionally, though. If you accept that super hero comics are bad, you probably consider any good ones to not be super hero. Edit: that said, Gaiman's Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader is undeniably a super hero comic. Complete with an amazing call out to Goodnight Moon. Edit2: Perez's Wonder Woman set is highly regarded, I think. In many ways more feminist than current works, from my memory.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      It's so not a superhero comic that DC actually came up with a new imprint for it and Hellblazer. It was, very briefly, a Moore-style sendup of superhero comics ("sleep, and if you wish, you may dream of the city of focative mirrors"), but shed that almost immediately when Gaiman got his footing. But like, I stopped reading superhero comics pretty quickly (I got to comics late, with Punisher [gag] and X-Men, and switched within like a year to the Vertigo/Cerebus/Comix stuff). So for all I know, there's a long "Aquaman" arc where he subtextually confronts misogyny or contemplates Rawlsianism. "Wonder Woman" is a good example! Thanks!
      - taeric 5y ago
        My only qualm is that I feel that is shifting definitions. I'm reminded of folks calling what Gaiman writes as graphic novels, not comics. Which... Seems silly. Especially since I remember buying them, as comics.