3 ms·

When an MSC makes it through the process, it is added to the protocol, right? Then all the servers and clients need to implement those MSCs or else they are no

by olah_1 5y ago

When an MSC makes it through the process, it is added to the protocol, right? Then all the servers and clients need to implement those MSCs or else they are not compliant with the protocol. Either you're not compliant with the protocol (Matrix), or you're not compliant with a certain extension (XMPP). I don't understand how these are different. Matrix has a lot of non-compliant servers and clients. XMPP has a lot of servers and clients that don't implement certain extensions.

Arathorn 5y ago
> When an MSC makes it through the process, it is added to the protocol, right? Yes. > Then all the servers and clients need to implement those MSCs or else they are not compliant with the protocol. It's no longer a MSC at that point; it's part of the next versioned release of the protocol. So yeah, if the feature profile their client/server is targeting doesn't implement the required features from that version of the protocol, it's not compliant. > Either you're not compliant with the protocol (Matrix), or you're not compliant with a certain extension (XMPP). > I don't understand how these are different. Matrix has a lot of non-compliant servers and clients. XMPP has a lot of servers and clients that don't implement certain extensions. The difference is that in Matrix there's only one specification which servers & clients can be compliant or not compliant with. Whereas in XMPP, there's an arbitrary combinatoric explosion of XEPs which you may or may not be compliant with.
- MattJ100 5y ago
  > The difference is that in Matrix there's only one specification which servers & clients can be compliant or not compliant with. Whereas in XMPP, there's an arbitrary combinatoric explosion of XEPs which you may or may not be compliant with. We don't version XMPP in this way, but instead annually publish the "compliance suites" listing the required XEPs for a range of profiles: https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites/ https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites/ - so for example an XMPP client can be compliant with the 2021 mobile requirements. In this document we also hint to developers which XEPs are looking promising for the future, so they have ample notice to play with them and give feedback. Beyond the compliance suites, implementations are obviously free to experiment with other XEPs, and that experimentation feeds into the standards process and determining what will be in the following year's compliance suite.

by olah_1 5y ago

Arathorn 5y ago

> When an MSC makes it through the process, it is added to the protocol, right? Yes. > Then all the servers and clients need to implement those MSCs or else they are not compliant with the protocol. It's no longer a MSC at that point; it's part of the next versioned release of the protocol. So yeah, if the feature profile their client/server is targeting doesn't implement the required features from that version of the protocol, it's not compliant. > Either you're not compliant with the protocol (Matrix), or you're not compliant with a certain extension (XMPP). > I don't understand how these are different. Matrix has a lot of non-compliant servers and clients. XMPP has a lot of servers and clients that don't implement certain extensions. The difference is that in Matrix there's only one specification which servers & clients can be compliant or not compliant with. Whereas in XMPP, there's an arbitrary combinatoric explosion of XEPs which you may or may not be compliant with.

MattJ100 5y ago
> The difference is that in Matrix there's only one specification which servers & clients can be compliant or not compliant with. Whereas in XMPP, there's an arbitrary combinatoric explosion of XEPs which you may or may not be compliant with. We don't version XMPP in this way, but instead annually publish the "compliance suites" listing the required XEPs for a range of profiles: https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites/ https://xmpp.org/about/compliance-suites/ - so for example an XMPP client can be compliant with the 2021 mobile requirements. In this document we also hint to developers which XEPs are looking promising for the future, so they have ample notice to play with them and give feedback. Beyond the compliance suites, implementations are obviously free to experiment with other XEPs, and that experimentation feeds into the standards process and determining what will be in the following year's compliance suite.