4 ms·

I don't think that's the mindset. The mindset is, "I worked for what I have, you can do the same"

seba_dos1 5y ago
People with that mindset usually greatly overestimate the influence their work has on what they have and underestimate external factors, so pushing them to reevaluate may be a good thing.
- tekknik 5y ago
  So, people that worked and earned what they have and are compensated accordingly don’t deserve it?
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Do such people even exist? Being a programmer, what I earned is a result of several factors - most importantly investments made into me by my parents and by the society (with schools, infrastructure etc. mostly funded with taxes); and also plenty of pure luck and sheer coincidence. Only afterwards comes a lot of hard work I've put into learning what I know. Without the former, I would probably earn only a small fraction of that (and/or under much worse conditions) even assuming that I'd be putting the same amount of hard work. Alternatively, with more dumb luck I could be earning much more while putting less work into achieving that. Of course, this is just barely scratching the surface, as there are also other ways to get rich than working hard or being lucky; mere ability to invest your time and effort into "working hard" is often filled with external factors as well; and "being (un)lucky" itself contains so many factors to consider that I wouldn't even know where to start.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      > Do such people even exist? You’re talking to one. I have no degree, am self taught and a software engineer. The most help I got was reading open source code, which was pretty difficult to do when I started. My parents had no money for school for me, and I joined the military to try to get some education. That still wasn’t enough to actually get a degree so I had to work low paying jobs knowing I could do better while working side projects to improve my skill. I just recently caught up to what I should be making. It’s common for those that took the standard path to think nobody works for what they got.
      - seba_dos1 5y ago
        I'm not. You were able to read open source code and learn from it, taking advantage of a lot of effort its authors put into it (who knows, maybe you even stumbled on some of my work out there?). You had access to computers and to the Internet, and had time to use it, most likely thanks to your parents, which isn't a given. You admitted yourself that you turned into publicly funded military for it to invest into your education. You also had ability to do side projects while working a low paying job, instead of, say, taking care of an ill relative your whole spare time - not everyone is so lucky. And perhaps most importantly of it all, you turned your attention into software engineering during time when software engineering is extremely lucrative - it doesn't have to stay this way at all. I don't even have a degree, by the way; I'm mostly self-taught too.
        tekknik 5y ago
        > You were able to read open source code and learn from it, taking advantage of a lot of effort its authors put into it (who knows, maybe you even stumbled on some of my work out there?). I knew you were going to fixate on that, as you’re grasping at straws, which is why I put it in there. The amount of source code I read was one project, a php web framework. Yea I learned about 2 things from it back then, which I’ve long forgotten now. Since I didn’t earn what I have, call your school, revoke your degree, quit your job and start over again with only unskilled jobs on your resume. Until you do that you won’t understand.
        seba_dos1 5y ago
        > Until you do that you won’t understand. I already said that I don't even have a degree. All you did in this thread was proving the point of my original comment.
        tekknik 5y ago
        No, I haven’t. You are assuming people give out info for free. What you’re saying is essentially that your degree was free. Someone had to pay for it. For me it was buying books. Did those authors help me with free books? No they charged me just the same. How is this getting help from others? Unless you believe that if you gain knowledge at all even with compensation from someone else is help. But that’s just commerce.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Nobody earns what they have in a vacuum. There is a society that exists around you and enables what you do.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      And we pay taxes to cover that.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Right, and that's what would be supporting UBI: taxes. So either you're arguing that taxes are unjust because they take what is rightfully yours, or you're just saying that UBI will cost too much. It very much seems like your argument is the former.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

People with that mindset usually greatly overestimate the influence their work has on what they have and underestimate external factors, so pushing them to reevaluate may be a good thing.

tekknik 5y ago
So, people that worked and earned what they have and are compensated accordingly don’t deserve it?
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Do such people even exist? Being a programmer, what I earned is a result of several factors - most importantly investments made into me by my parents and by the society (with schools, infrastructure etc. mostly funded with taxes); and also plenty of pure luck and sheer coincidence. Only afterwards comes a lot of hard work I've put into learning what I know. Without the former, I would probably earn only a small fraction of that (and/or under much worse conditions) even assuming that I'd be putting the same amount of hard work. Alternatively, with more dumb luck I could be earning much more while putting less work into achieving that. Of course, this is just barely scratching the surface, as there are also other ways to get rich than working hard or being lucky; mere ability to invest your time and effort into "working hard" is often filled with external factors as well; and "being (un)lucky" itself contains so many factors to consider that I wouldn't even know where to start.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > Do such people even exist? You’re talking to one. I have no degree, am self taught and a software engineer. The most help I got was reading open source code, which was pretty difficult to do when I started. My parents had no money for school for me, and I joined the military to try to get some education. That still wasn’t enough to actually get a degree so I had to work low paying jobs knowing I could do better while working side projects to improve my skill. I just recently caught up to what I should be making. It’s common for those that took the standard path to think nobody works for what they got.
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      I'm not. You were able to read open source code and learn from it, taking advantage of a lot of effort its authors put into it (who knows, maybe you even stumbled on some of my work out there?). You had access to computers and to the Internet, and had time to use it, most likely thanks to your parents, which isn't a given. You admitted yourself that you turned into publicly funded military for it to invest into your education. You also had ability to do side projects while working a low paying job, instead of, say, taking care of an ill relative your whole spare time - not everyone is so lucky. And perhaps most importantly of it all, you turned your attention into software engineering during time when software engineering is extremely lucrative - it doesn't have to stay this way at all. I don't even have a degree, by the way; I'm mostly self-taught too.
      - tekknik 5y ago
        > You were able to read open source code and learn from it, taking advantage of a lot of effort its authors put into it (who knows, maybe you even stumbled on some of my work out there?). I knew you were going to fixate on that, as you’re grasping at straws, which is why I put it in there. The amount of source code I read was one project, a php web framework. Yea I learned about 2 things from it back then, which I’ve long forgotten now. Since I didn’t earn what I have, call your school, revoke your degree, quit your job and start over again with only unskilled jobs on your resume. Until you do that you won’t understand.
        seba_dos1 5y ago
        > Until you do that you won’t understand. I already said that I don't even have a degree. All you did in this thread was proving the point of my original comment.
        tekknik 5y ago
        No, I haven’t. You are assuming people give out info for free. What you’re saying is essentially that your degree was free. Someone had to pay for it. For me it was buying books. Did those authors help me with free books? No they charged me just the same. How is this getting help from others? Unless you believe that if you gain knowledge at all even with compensation from someone else is help. But that’s just commerce.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Nobody earns what they have in a vacuum. There is a society that exists around you and enables what you do.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    And we pay taxes to cover that.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Right, and that's what would be supporting UBI: taxes. So either you're arguing that taxes are unjust because they take what is rightfully yours, or you're just saying that UBI will cost too much. It very much seems like your argument is the former.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]