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Believe it or not, poor people generally don't buy football tickets. If their TVs were made by UBI workers, then they wouldn't be able to afford those either. M

Believe it or not, poor people generally don't buy football tickets. If their TVs were made by UBI workers, then they wouldn't be able to afford those either. Material things would become scarce again due to the artificially inflated cost of labour. You're basically rewinding all of the gains in productivity we've made by imposing a high floor. CEOs aren't paid a lot because the assume risk, they're paid a lot because business leadership is hard, and good leaders are scarce. I also don't know of many CEOs at large companies whose job I would classify as "enjoyable". > Every man and their granny will be a CEO of a one person company Then we'll need a new word for "company" as it's meant today. Also no one is stopping anyone from being an independent contractor, which is basically this. I'm not sure I'm following.

tremon 5y ago
Then we'll need a new word for "company" as it's meant today Already ahead of you: a one-person company is called a ZZP'er here in NL. ZZP = zelfstandige zonder personeel == self-employed without employees.
- Kim_Bruning 5y ago
  If you want to be the CEO of your own corporation, nothing beats DGA (Directeur-Grootaandeelhouder). The grandest title of them all!
zozbot234 5y ago
> Material things would become scarce again due to the artificially inflated cost of labour. A UBI would be more efficient than the extensive patch-work of policies and regulations that we use today to artificially redistribute income. There would be a lot more work happening on material things, not less - especially when adjusted for productivity. Minimum wage work today is some of the least productive.
- thegrimmest 5y ago
  > There would be a lot more work happening on material things, not less Who will do all the hard, unpleasant work then? Who will pick strawberries, work retail, or do hard labour, for anything less than a fortune? What substitute to the current "don't starve/end up homeless" incentive structure will motivate people to do these jobs? Productivity improvements aren't universal, they're specific. We've not improved productivity for strawberry pickers because we've not come up with a way to automate the picking of strawberries. The least productive work tends to pay minimum wage.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    Who picks strawberries today in high-income countries/locations, where strawberry pickers have all sorts of alternatives available? There's your answer. It tends to cost more, but not much more. And the increased cost is offset to a large extent by improved specialization in those lines of work, and the ensuing productivity.
    - thegrimmest 5y ago
      Migrant labourers mostly, and in places where these are not available (like Japan), strawberries cost a lot more, making them a "special occasion" treat for middle classes, and putting them mostly out of reach of poorer people.
      - CraigJPerry 5y ago
        So less strawberries but you get to bin US healthcare and replace it with Japanese style healthcare instead? That’s an easy yes.
        thegrimmest 5y ago
        Not just less strawberries, but less everything that involves domestic/UBI-competing labour, which is a lot. If we did this worldwide, it would be everything.
tekknik 5y ago
> Believe it or not, poor people generally don't buy football tickets. If their TVs were made by UBI workers, then they wouldn't be able to afford those either. This is not my experience at all. I once had a job setting up home PCs and internet for low income people in my community. Almost every single home had a projection TV (the top of the line at the time) and a recent mercedes in the driveway. They’re able to afford these things because they are actually receiving income, it’s just not reported (and therefore also not taxed)
- CraigJPerry 5y ago
  >> They’re able to afford these things because they are actually receiving income, it’s just not reported Everyone’s a drug dealer? Doesnt sound plausible. Or at least They’re getting so much income they can afford to run a fancy car (debt free because who’s lending to a person with minimal documented income). I mean is that a poor person when they have $50k laying around to go buy a fancy car outright? Something about your proposition doesnt add up in a really basic obvious way.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > Everyone’s a drug dealer? Doesnt sound plausible. Where did I say drug dealer? Or is this the first time you’ve heard of jobs getting paid under the table? And yes some of them had much more than $50k judging by their things. But hey, make them more wealthy. Some people are really good at gaming the system.
    - CraigJPerry 5y ago
      So that's not a poor person then, you said poor person but it sounds like you mean something else?
      - tekknik 5y ago
        Again, you can be poor on paper but not actually poor. It’s called tax evasion.

tremon 5y ago

Then we'll need a new word for "company" as it's meant today Already ahead of you: a one-person company is called a ZZP'er here in NL. ZZP = zelfstandige zonder personeel == self-employed without employees.

Kim_Bruning 5y ago
If you want to be the CEO of your own corporation, nothing beats DGA (Directeur-Grootaandeelhouder). The grandest title of them all!

zozbot234 5y ago

> Material things would become scarce again due to the artificially inflated cost of labour. A UBI would be more efficient than the extensive patch-work of policies and regulations that we use today to artificially redistribute income. There would be a lot more work happening on material things, not less - especially when adjusted for productivity. Minimum wage work today is some of the least productive.

thegrimmest 5y ago
> There would be a lot more work happening on material things, not less Who will do all the hard, unpleasant work then? Who will pick strawberries, work retail, or do hard labour, for anything less than a fortune? What substitute to the current "don't starve/end up homeless" incentive structure will motivate people to do these jobs? Productivity improvements aren't universal, they're specific. We've not improved productivity for strawberry pickers because we've not come up with a way to automate the picking of strawberries. The least productive work tends to pay minimum wage.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Who picks strawberries today in high-income countries/locations, where strawberry pickers have all sorts of alternatives available? There's your answer. It tends to cost more, but not much more. And the increased cost is offset to a large extent by improved specialization in those lines of work, and the ensuing productivity.
  - thegrimmest 5y ago
    Migrant labourers mostly, and in places where these are not available (like Japan), strawberries cost a lot more, making them a "special occasion" treat for middle classes, and putting them mostly out of reach of poorer people.
    - CraigJPerry 5y ago
      So less strawberries but you get to bin US healthcare and replace it with Japanese style healthcare instead? That’s an easy yes.
      - thegrimmest 5y ago
        Not just less strawberries, but less everything that involves domestic/UBI-competing labour, which is a lot. If we did this worldwide, it would be everything.

tekknik 5y ago

> Believe it or not, poor people generally don't buy football tickets. If their TVs were made by UBI workers, then they wouldn't be able to afford those either. This is not my experience at all. I once had a job setting up home PCs and internet for low income people in my community. Almost every single home had a projection TV (the top of the line at the time) and a recent mercedes in the driveway. They’re able to afford these things because they are actually receiving income, it’s just not reported (and therefore also not taxed)

CraigJPerry 5y ago
>> They’re able to afford these things because they are actually receiving income, it’s just not reported Everyone’s a drug dealer? Doesnt sound plausible. Or at least They’re getting so much income they can afford to run a fancy car (debt free because who’s lending to a person with minimal documented income). I mean is that a poor person when they have $50k laying around to go buy a fancy car outright? Something about your proposition doesnt add up in a really basic obvious way.
- tekknik 5y ago
  > Everyone’s a drug dealer? Doesnt sound plausible. Where did I say drug dealer? Or is this the first time you’ve heard of jobs getting paid under the table? And yes some of them had much more than $50k judging by their things. But hey, make them more wealthy. Some people are really good at gaming the system.
  - CraigJPerry 5y ago
    So that's not a poor person then, you said poor person but it sounds like you mean something else?
    - tekknik 5y ago
      Again, you can be poor on paper but not actually poor. It’s called tax evasion.