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Another take is that if workers are able to say no to a shit job, then the burden is placed on the employer to either eliminate the job or make it less shit. I

Another take is that if workers are able to say no to a shit job, then the burden is placed on the employer to either eliminate the job or make it less shit. In the Nordics, there are no manual car washes, yet life goes on. Economically it doesn't make sense because of the high labor costs, and realistically it is a menial job that can be for the most part automated. If you want to live in a world where you can have a cheap hand wash in your back yard, then you have to also admit to wanting structural inequalities to keep people trapped in those carwash jobs. It's delusional to believe that the people washing your car have a path out through hard work alone; my observation is that they already work pretty hard. UBI is much more about giving workers power than giving them free money. And yes, there will be dole bludgers. Unfortunately any system is going to have inefficiencies, you just have to pick which ones and live with it. Alternatively, you can get tough on crime and house a prison population.

kwhitefoot 5y ago
> In the Nordics, there are no manual car washes, This is simply not true, at least in the more densely populated parts of Norway. They are simply very expensive.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  That works, too!
- yurishimo 5y ago
  Which car washes are we talking about? Self service manual washes, or something more akin to a light detail that includes a hand wash? In the US, you can drive up and pay $1~/min and spray your car yourself w/ soap and water. You can also do the drive-thru option for about $10. On the upper end, you can pay $50~ for what might start as a drive-thru, but then someone comes out and does a manual touch up where the machine might have missed a spot, and then they will vacuum and wipe down the interior. At $100+, you're looking at a hand wash and detail, potentially going up to hundreds of dollars for different aftercare options. Detailing can be very lucrative if you get a good referral network established.
  - padobson 5y ago
    At $100+, you're looking at a hand wash and detail, potentially going up to hundreds of dollars for different aftercare options. It's also worth mentioning that you've jumped from menial to skilled labor at this point. There's a big difference between hosing off a Prius for the owner's commute and detailing a McLaren for an auto show. The latter is far more satisfying work.
    - tekknik 5y ago
      Why is it a McLaren? I have a BMW and it’s around $80 for a quick vacuum, hand wash and detail. It’s not at all skilled labor and if I had a hose (I live in an apartment) I’d do it myself. Those polishing cars for auto shows are quite a bit in a different realm and not what’s being discussed here.
      - yurishimo 5y ago
        Yeah, I definitely wouldn't consider someone who washes/details cars as having a "skilled" labor job. Every job requires training, but I can give someone a checklist and one day of training and set them free after that. I agree that detailing supercars is a different league.
- Sammi 5y ago
  Downvoted because you know OP meant "no _affordable_ manual car washes", so why did you have to make a bad faith interpretation?
  - 0xfaded 5y ago
    I would welcome such a comment, it tempers what was admittedly my own hyperbole with a nuance of reality. But yes, I doubt an American full-service car wash would recognizable in the Nordics.
    - kwhitefoot 5y ago
      I don't really know exactly what a 'full service car wash' means but I do know that car washes with optional polishing and interior cleaning are available here in Norway because I see signs for them in the next town to where I live. I imagine that they are much less common than in the US simply because wages here are high. But they do exist. And of course we have the kind where you wash the car yourself using a high pressure water jet in addition to the drive through kind (both those with and without brushes).
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    You might have known that. I didn't.

kwhitefoot 5y ago

> In the Nordics, there are no manual car washes, This is simply not true, at least in the more densely populated parts of Norway. They are simply very expensive.

Ericson2314 5y ago
That works, too!
yurishimo 5y ago
Which car washes are we talking about? Self service manual washes, or something more akin to a light detail that includes a hand wash? In the US, you can drive up and pay $1~/min and spray your car yourself w/ soap and water. You can also do the drive-thru option for about $10. On the upper end, you can pay $50~ for what might start as a drive-thru, but then someone comes out and does a manual touch up where the machine might have missed a spot, and then they will vacuum and wipe down the interior. At $100+, you're looking at a hand wash and detail, potentially going up to hundreds of dollars for different aftercare options. Detailing can be very lucrative if you get a good referral network established.
- padobson 5y ago
  At $100+, you're looking at a hand wash and detail, potentially going up to hundreds of dollars for different aftercare options. It's also worth mentioning that you've jumped from menial to skilled labor at this point. There's a big difference between hosing off a Prius for the owner's commute and detailing a McLaren for an auto show. The latter is far more satisfying work.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    Why is it a McLaren? I have a BMW and it’s around $80 for a quick vacuum, hand wash and detail. It’s not at all skilled labor and if I had a hose (I live in an apartment) I’d do it myself. Those polishing cars for auto shows are quite a bit in a different realm and not what’s being discussed here.
    - yurishimo 5y ago
      Yeah, I definitely wouldn't consider someone who washes/details cars as having a "skilled" labor job. Every job requires training, but I can give someone a checklist and one day of training and set them free after that. I agree that detailing supercars is a different league.
Sammi 5y ago
Downvoted because you know OP meant "no _affordable_ manual car washes", so why did you have to make a bad faith interpretation?
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  I would welcome such a comment, it tempers what was admittedly my own hyperbole with a nuance of reality. But yes, I doubt an American full-service car wash would recognizable in the Nordics.
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    I don't really know exactly what a 'full service car wash' means but I do know that car washes with optional polishing and interior cleaning are available here in Norway because I see signs for them in the next town to where I live. I imagine that they are much less common than in the US simply because wages here are high. But they do exist. And of course we have the kind where you wash the car yourself using a high pressure water jet in addition to the drive through kind (both those with and without brushes).
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  You might have known that. I didn't.