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> Shifting some power to them and giving the job a little more of an air of dignity or status would probably help a lot. I agree, but is this feasible or wishf

> Shifting some power to them and giving the job a little more of an air of dignity or status would probably help a lot. I agree, but is this feasible or wishful thinking? As a society, we’re decidedly split on whether we should wear masks or should or should not get vaccines, despite the science or despite whatever seems like a rational decision. (Admittedly I’m introducing my bias here). Would raising pay for retail workers or people acknowledging that we need to treat them with respect - would either of these actually lead to the right outcome? Or would it fuel another voice that vehemently sees these jobs as a stepping stone and not entitled to respect and dignity?

thr0wawayf00 5y ago
As you pointed out, it's not possible to achieve consensus on things like vaccines and masks, I don't think we should expect any differently in any sort of proposed change. There are always going to be opponents. If we always chose not to do something because it would be met with resistance, then nothing would happen ever. The US passing the civil rights act was met with vicious resistance as it was happening, should it not have happened because there were critics of the law? Ultimately, I think we do need to raise pay and facilitate a higher level of discourse in those kinds of environments., regardless of what detractors will say.
parsimo2010 5y ago
I think what it would do is balance the power a little toward an employee’s favor instead of a customer. Right now there are people that have no choice but to work these jobs. So a company can institute a “customer is always right” policy because it keeps the customer around and they really don’t have to consider their employees feelings- they are easily replaced. Customers only act like assholes because they can get away with it- abuse the clerk, the manager comes out, customer gets free stuff. But if there was a basic income there might be fewer people willing to put up with abusive customers. If a company has a hard time replacing employees then it might have to reconsider their policy to be more like “accommodate reasonable customers but abusive customers can be kicked out.” This would probably happen over time, not immediately after implementing a basic income but I think it’s a good thing. But I think the overall idea that companies would have to put a little more effort into their employee’s well being would be borne out if a country could commit to a basic income for long enough for the effects to shake out. This is good behavior that companies would be forced into, not because of morals like respects and dignity, but because a mass exodus of employees would eventually hurt profits more than keeping unreasonable customers around.
- yurishimo 5y ago
  Also, I think we've all seen the reddit threads about someone standing up to a rude customer and not getting fired. Those employers exist and seemingly are operating their businesses at a profit. Hell, we have professions now that demand respect (cops) and magically, the vast majority of the population seems to be able to grow up and not act like a child when confronted with an undesirable situation. I don't think anyone in retail is asking for an undo burden by the rest of society when demanding humane treatment in their workplace.
  - munk-a 5y ago
    The fact that "karens" have become a meme is largely due to this. Working retail has always been filled with absolutely terrible customers but in this day and age we're actually shaming them instead of feeding bad behavior with passive silence.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    > Hell, we have professions now that demand respect (cops) and magically, the vast majority of the population seems to be able to grow up and not act like a child when confronted with an undesirable situation. By law in most situations you must comply with the police officer. Not really the same.

thr0wawayf00 5y ago

As you pointed out, it's not possible to achieve consensus on things like vaccines and masks, I don't think we should expect any differently in any sort of proposed change. There are always going to be opponents. If we always chose not to do something because it would be met with resistance, then nothing would happen ever. The US passing the civil rights act was met with vicious resistance as it was happening, should it not have happened because there were critics of the law? Ultimately, I think we do need to raise pay and facilitate a higher level of discourse in those kinds of environments., regardless of what detractors will say.

parsimo2010 5y ago

I think what it would do is balance the power a little toward an employee’s favor instead of a customer. Right now there are people that have no choice but to work these jobs. So a company can institute a “customer is always right” policy because it keeps the customer around and they really don’t have to consider their employees feelings- they are easily replaced. Customers only act like assholes because they can get away with it- abuse the clerk, the manager comes out, customer gets free stuff. But if there was a basic income there might be fewer people willing to put up with abusive customers. If a company has a hard time replacing employees then it might have to reconsider their policy to be more like “accommodate reasonable customers but abusive customers can be kicked out.” This would probably happen over time, not immediately after implementing a basic income but I think it’s a good thing. But I think the overall idea that companies would have to put a little more effort into their employee’s well being would be borne out if a country could commit to a basic income for long enough for the effects to shake out. This is good behavior that companies would be forced into, not because of morals like respects and dignity, but because a mass exodus of employees would eventually hurt profits more than keeping unreasonable customers around.

yurishimo 5y ago
Also, I think we've all seen the reddit threads about someone standing up to a rude customer and not getting fired. Those employers exist and seemingly are operating their businesses at a profit. Hell, we have professions now that demand respect (cops) and magically, the vast majority of the population seems to be able to grow up and not act like a child when confronted with an undesirable situation. I don't think anyone in retail is asking for an undo burden by the rest of society when demanding humane treatment in their workplace.
- munk-a 5y ago
  The fact that "karens" have become a meme is largely due to this. Working retail has always been filled with absolutely terrible customers but in this day and age we're actually shaming them instead of feeding bad behavior with passive silence.
- tekknik 5y ago
  > Hell, we have professions now that demand respect (cops) and magically, the vast majority of the population seems to be able to grow up and not act like a child when confronted with an undesirable situation. By law in most situations you must comply with the police officer. Not really the same.