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Yes it would. Look: we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already?

Yes it would. Look: we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already? What am I supposed to believe? A microfoundations paper from a field with infamous replication problems on one hand, or, on the other hand, common sense and my own lying eyes? Of course UBI would reduce propensity to work. Only people with an axe to grind can seriously believe otherwise.

sschueller 5y ago
So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? Maybe all these people don't want to work these kinda of jobs and are moving into other sectors. Maybe working conditions and pay need to be drastically improved in those jobs.
- quotemstr 5y ago
  > So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? Honestly, yes --- not always, but frequently. I am sick and tired of the mentality embedded in the sentence I quoted. Do you think the rich are rich for no reason at all? That their rewards are unfair? Success is not the universe sprinkling good fortune on mankind at random: success comes from hard work and the courage to take advantage of the opportunities that time presents to everyone from time to time. Let's be honest with ourselves for one and acknowledge the connection between teachable personal qualities and desirable outcomes.
  - hhmc 5y ago
    > Do you think the rich are rich for no reason at all? No, social immobility and generational wealth transfer. > That their rewards are unfair? Often, yes.
    - Dig1t 5y ago
      I think it's sort of unfair to reduce the whole argument to a one-liner like that. Sure, many people do take advantage of generational wealth, setting your children up for success is a basic human impulse. There are also a ton of data supporting the case that actually a huge percentage of successful/wealthy people did not get that way through generational wealth but in fact, just worked hard (also luck plays a factor). Also, yes the rewards are unfair, life is extremely unfair pretty much all of the time.
      - hhmc 5y ago
        > I think it's sort of unfair to reduce the whole argument to a one-liner like that. My answers had a commensurate level of respect to the questions.
    - oldcigarette 5y ago
      >muh generational wealth Gone in two or three generations - irrelevant to policy decisions. Handing out these (false) mental crutches is unproductive and just creates resentment in the wrong places. Some people take a risk and are rewarded for it. Some people just work hard. Some people got a shit hand. You come across as one of those load voices clamoring for some policy without any appreciation for nuance.
  - brailsafe 5y ago
    Probably the hardest working people that I've seen are recent immigrants, doing literally the shittiest work in the shittiest conditions for people who probably had a lot of advantages set up for them and never worked remotely as much or with as much abuse, and who are genuine monsters. The prime minister of Canada is not rich and powerful because he worked hard enough as a teacher. He became a teacher because his former prime minister dad set him up very well, with nothing else to do but fuck around doing dumb peasant things. Ya, he worked hard, but never had to worry about anything from day 1. His former prime minister dad only did the exact same thing after his dad made a ton of money in oil and gas. Elon Musk's dad was a literal explorer who made his money in... mining.
  - jyounker 5y ago
    > success comes from hard work The poor work very hard. > and the courage to take advantage of the opportunities that time presents to everyone from time to time. It's very easy to take risks when you can fall back on mommy and daddy's wealth if something goes wrong. It's easy to grab opportunities when mommy or daddy can co-sign your loan or put up the downpayment. Those things are true even moderate amounts of stability or wealth.
  - log4shelled 5y ago
    No. No no no. I make six figures and hardly work at all. As a dishwasher I used to bust my ass and make 7 dollars per hour. In my experience, the less you work, the more money you make. Everyone I've talked to in real life, who has worked both shitty jobs and high paying jobs, has the exact same experience.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      I agree. I am paid more now than I ever have been in my life and I work less than I ever have. One of my roomates has worked in kitchens all his life and I assure you he works a hell of a lot harder than I ever did, yet makes a pittance.
  - teucris 5y ago
    > Success is not the universe sprinkling good fortune on mankind at random. Yes. Yes it is. For every successful person in the world, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of people with just as much courage, work ethic and intelligence who didn’t get the same opportunities presented to them. Do not mistake this position as “it’s unfair that everyone isn’t successful”. The world does not distribute potential equally. What I’m saying is that there are further barriers, completely out of one’s control, that can keep worthy people from success.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- vl 5y ago
  > So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? I’ll tell you a secret: rich people don’t work. Most rich people just work enough to maintain their wealth. You just don’t see them because there are not CEOs or celebrities.
- nightski 5y ago
  I have relatively poor parents. They work extremely hard, but for some reason they choose to work super hard on all the wrong things. It's almost like they are obsessed with busy work. I try to help them but it often falls on deaf ears. I don't believe poor people are lazy. I think it's just very hard to make the mental shift needed to pull yourself out of that situation (which they are likely not even capable of doing on their own without help - very few are). This is just my personal opinion, but people need more than money thrown at them. They need help. If we are going to help the poor in society it's going to take time investment and personal relationships. That's what so few in America (even myself, I'll admit it) want to hear.
josephcsible 5y ago
"went through" is an understatement. We're still in the massive worker shortage.
- Mizza 5y ago
  "Worker shortage" is capitalist propaganda. There is a well-paying job shortage.
jyounker 5y ago
> we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already? Nope we haven't. We just paid attention to the facts: Some states turned down additional unemployment benefits. Those states continued to have same employment issues as the states that maintained benefits. So clearly the issue was not the unemployment benefits.

sschueller 5y ago

So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? Maybe all these people don't want to work these kinda of jobs and are moving into other sectors. Maybe working conditions and pay need to be drastically improved in those jobs.

quotemstr 5y ago
> So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? Honestly, yes --- not always, but frequently. I am sick and tired of the mentality embedded in the sentence I quoted. Do you think the rich are rich for no reason at all? That their rewards are unfair? Success is not the universe sprinkling good fortune on mankind at random: success comes from hard work and the courage to take advantage of the opportunities that time presents to everyone from time to time. Let's be honest with ourselves for one and acknowledge the connection between teachable personal qualities and desirable outcomes.
- hhmc 5y ago
  > Do you think the rich are rich for no reason at all? No, social immobility and generational wealth transfer. > That their rewards are unfair? Often, yes.
  - Dig1t 5y ago
    I think it's sort of unfair to reduce the whole argument to a one-liner like that. Sure, many people do take advantage of generational wealth, setting your children up for success is a basic human impulse. There are also a ton of data supporting the case that actually a huge percentage of successful/wealthy people did not get that way through generational wealth but in fact, just worked hard (also luck plays a factor). Also, yes the rewards are unfair, life is extremely unfair pretty much all of the time.
    - hhmc 5y ago
      > I think it's sort of unfair to reduce the whole argument to a one-liner like that. My answers had a commensurate level of respect to the questions.
  - oldcigarette 5y ago
    >muh generational wealth Gone in two or three generations - irrelevant to policy decisions. Handing out these (false) mental crutches is unproductive and just creates resentment in the wrong places. Some people take a risk and are rewarded for it. Some people just work hard. Some people got a shit hand. You come across as one of those load voices clamoring for some policy without any appreciation for nuance.
- brailsafe 5y ago
  Probably the hardest working people that I've seen are recent immigrants, doing literally the shittiest work in the shittiest conditions for people who probably had a lot of advantages set up for them and never worked remotely as much or with as much abuse, and who are genuine monsters. The prime minister of Canada is not rich and powerful because he worked hard enough as a teacher. He became a teacher because his former prime minister dad set him up very well, with nothing else to do but fuck around doing dumb peasant things. Ya, he worked hard, but never had to worry about anything from day 1. His former prime minister dad only did the exact same thing after his dad made a ton of money in oil and gas. Elon Musk's dad was a literal explorer who made his money in... mining.
- jyounker 5y ago
  > success comes from hard work The poor work very hard. > and the courage to take advantage of the opportunities that time presents to everyone from time to time. It's very easy to take risks when you can fall back on mommy and daddy's wealth if something goes wrong. It's easy to grab opportunities when mommy or daddy can co-sign your loan or put up the downpayment. Those things are true even moderate amounts of stability or wealth.
- log4shelled 5y ago
  No. No no no. I make six figures and hardly work at all. As a dishwasher I used to bust my ass and make 7 dollars per hour. In my experience, the less you work, the more money you make. Everyone I've talked to in real life, who has worked both shitty jobs and high paying jobs, has the exact same experience.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I agree. I am paid more now than I ever have been in my life and I work less than I ever have. One of my roomates has worked in kitchens all his life and I assure you he works a hell of a lot harder than I ever did, yet makes a pittance.
- teucris 5y ago
  > Success is not the universe sprinkling good fortune on mankind at random. Yes. Yes it is. For every successful person in the world, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of people with just as much courage, work ethic and intelligence who didn’t get the same opportunities presented to them. Do not mistake this position as “it’s unfair that everyone isn’t successful”. The world does not distribute potential equally. What I’m saying is that there are further barriers, completely out of one’s control, that can keep worthy people from success.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
vl 5y ago
> So poor people are lazy and the rich aren't? I’ll tell you a secret: rich people don’t work. Most rich people just work enough to maintain their wealth. You just don’t see them because there are not CEOs or celebrities.
nightski 5y ago
I have relatively poor parents. They work extremely hard, but for some reason they choose to work super hard on all the wrong things. It's almost like they are obsessed with busy work. I try to help them but it often falls on deaf ears. I don't believe poor people are lazy. I think it's just very hard to make the mental shift needed to pull yourself out of that situation (which they are likely not even capable of doing on their own without help - very few are). This is just my personal opinion, but people need more than money thrown at them. They need help. If we are going to help the poor in society it's going to take time investment and personal relationships. That's what so few in America (even myself, I'll admit it) want to hear.

josephcsible 5y ago

"went through" is an understatement. We're still in the massive worker shortage.

Mizza 5y ago
"Worker shortage" is capitalist propaganda. There is a well-paying job shortage.

jyounker 5y ago

> we just went through a massive worker shortage caused by overly generous stimulus benefits and rent subsidies. Have we forgotten already? Nope we haven't. We just paid attention to the facts: Some states turned down additional unemployment benefits. Those states continued to have same employment issues as the states that maintained benefits. So clearly the issue was not the unemployment benefits.