5 ms·

It is a good speech ( I have misgivings about the ornate start, but different times and different audience ). My favorite fragment is the following: "If I live

It is a good speech ( I have misgivings about the ornate start, but different times and different audience ). My favorite fragment is the following: "If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions. Maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn't committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly." We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech, which is a shame ( doubly so since MLK estate is still milking it[1]). [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/15/54-years-later-you-still-have-to-pay-to-use-martin-luther-king-jr-s-famous-i-have-a-dream-speech/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/...

bradleyjg 5y ago
I wouldn’t say it’s a shame. Most people, even enormously consequential people, don’t have any of their own words passed down to history. Which of George Washington’s speeches is wildly read today? “I have a dream” is an amazing speech delivered by an amazing orator. That this once in a generation talent also delivered other great speeches is unsurprising but there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. It deserves its spot.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I will admit that I never thought about it like that. The image of fedora wearing individual stating he only listens to unedited audio and insisting that anyone listening to 'dream' speech is part of pop-culture popped into my head . It is funny. I apologize if my comment sounded that way. That was definitely not my intention. I think I am just still a little cranky since kid woke me up early and coffee didn't kick in.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- maroonblazer 5y ago
  Your comment was perfectly ok until this part: >there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    A4E seem to take it okay. That it was a funny image was half the reason I included that part. Chillax.
  - jancsika 5y ago
    > You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment. To be fair, OP is responding to an ambiguity. Was GP's point that "I Have a Dream" is great and it's a shame that the wider public doesn't know more of MLK's great speeches? Or was the point that "I Have a Dream" is subpar when compared to the other speeches and thus misrepresents his output? tldr; Was GP saying "I Have a Dream" is the "Beethoven's 5th" of speeches, or "Ravel's Bolero" of speeches? Upshot-- OP is not being generous by jumping on the more divisive interpretation. However, since it is a valid interpretation OP's lack of generosity is based on something and not nothing. Fin.
    - watwut 5y ago
      You have to work really hard to twist that comment into meaning that speech is subpar. That ambiguity is just not there.
- AvocadoPanic 5y ago
  Maybe it's the lack of audio and video recordings of Washington's speeches?
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    Maybe, but people still read the Gettysburg Address. I had to memorize it in school.
ashtonkem 5y ago
> We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. The public image of the man has been watered down to merely opposing segregation and legal discrimination, and all of his more radical economic proposals and opinions tend to be politely ignored. The March on Washington also included a demand for a $2 minimum wage ($17 in 2020 dollars) and self governance for Washington DC, funny how that isn’t mentioned often. Hell, he was helping support a strike when he was assassinated. How many people were taught that before?
- Taywee 5y ago
  > Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. I don't think so. I think it's more that things get distilled and simplified in public memory naturally. How much of all of all the activities of other greatly-remembered figures are actually all fully remembered and talked about? Do you think the public has anywhere near a complete perception of all the ideals of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln? Unless you are a scholar in the area, you have done specific research out of curiosity, or you have been personally affected by it, most of what you see is the stuff that echos in the public memory, which is the largest events and purest distillation of the ideals and character of the person in question. Human memory is built on patterns, symbols, and stripping of what seems to be unnecessary extraneous information, and this seems to be much more extreme in cultural memory. I don't think there has been any conscious effort to remove the other ideals that King had, it's just not what he did that people care about most right now.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Imo, memory of other great figures and greatly influenced by politics. And often very intentionally, people using their names have agendas. That includes the three people you mentioned.
- ralusek 5y ago
  That's because ideas shouldn't be bundled together just because a person said them. The I Have A Dream speech is famous precisely because it is the most important/widely agreed upon of his ideas: evaluate individuals according to their own character independently of whatever collective you might otherwise assume characteristics of. That's a good idea. People like that idea. We don't talk about King's socialism as much, because what he said in that arena wasn't particularly revolutionary, and many people don't find socialism to be compelling (myself included). Hence, remembering ideas.

bradleyjg 5y ago

I wouldn’t say it’s a shame. Most people, even enormously consequential people, don’t have any of their own words passed down to history. Which of George Washington’s speeches is wildly read today? “I have a dream” is an amazing speech delivered by an amazing orator. That this once in a generation talent also delivered other great speeches is unsurprising but there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. It deserves its spot.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
I will admit that I never thought about it like that. The image of fedora wearing individual stating he only listens to unedited audio and insisting that anyone listening to 'dream' speech is part of pop-culture popped into my head . It is funny. I apologize if my comment sounded that way. That was definitely not my intention. I think I am just still a little cranky since kid woke me up early and coffee didn't kick in.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
maroonblazer 5y ago
Your comment was perfectly ok until this part: >there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  A4E seem to take it okay. That it was a funny image was half the reason I included that part. Chillax.
- jancsika 5y ago
  > You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment. To be fair, OP is responding to an ambiguity. Was GP's point that "I Have a Dream" is great and it's a shame that the wider public doesn't know more of MLK's great speeches? Or was the point that "I Have a Dream" is subpar when compared to the other speeches and thus misrepresents his output? tldr; Was GP saying "I Have a Dream" is the "Beethoven's 5th" of speeches, or "Ravel's Bolero" of speeches? Upshot-- OP is not being generous by jumping on the more divisive interpretation. However, since it is a valid interpretation OP's lack of generosity is based on something and not nothing. Fin.
  - watwut 5y ago
    You have to work really hard to twist that comment into meaning that speech is subpar. That ambiguity is just not there.
AvocadoPanic 5y ago
Maybe it's the lack of audio and video recordings of Washington's speeches?
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Maybe, but people still read the Gettysburg Address. I had to memorize it in school.

ashtonkem 5y ago

> We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. The public image of the man has been watered down to merely opposing segregation and legal discrimination, and all of his more radical economic proposals and opinions tend to be politely ignored. The March on Washington also included a demand for a $2 minimum wage ($17 in 2020 dollars) and self governance for Washington DC, funny how that isn’t mentioned often. Hell, he was helping support a strike when he was assassinated. How many people were taught that before?

Taywee 5y ago
> Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. I don't think so. I think it's more that things get distilled and simplified in public memory naturally. How much of all of all the activities of other greatly-remembered figures are actually all fully remembered and talked about? Do you think the public has anywhere near a complete perception of all the ideals of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln? Unless you are a scholar in the area, you have done specific research out of curiosity, or you have been personally affected by it, most of what you see is the stuff that echos in the public memory, which is the largest events and purest distillation of the ideals and character of the person in question. Human memory is built on patterns, symbols, and stripping of what seems to be unnecessary extraneous information, and this seems to be much more extreme in cultural memory. I don't think there has been any conscious effort to remove the other ideals that King had, it's just not what he did that people care about most right now.
- watwut 5y ago
  Imo, memory of other great figures and greatly influenced by politics. And often very intentionally, people using their names have agendas. That includes the three people you mentioned.
ralusek 5y ago
That's because ideas shouldn't be bundled together just because a person said them. The I Have A Dream speech is famous precisely because it is the most important/widely agreed upon of his ideas: evaluate individuals according to their own character independently of whatever collective you might otherwise assume characteristics of. That's a good idea. People like that idea. We don't talk about King's socialism as much, because what he said in that arena wasn't particularly revolutionary, and many people don't find socialism to be compelling (myself included). Hence, remembering ideas.