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>I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their

>I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Boy have we gone off the rails on this one. Skin color has become a primary way people self identify. Sad.

systemvoltage 5y ago
This is sadly true. Sorry to see this downvoted.
orf 5y ago
He says nothing about self-identification, but about external judgement. Which I guess you're doing here.
- daenz 5y ago
  How you self identify has a massive influence on how people externally judge you.
  - orf 5y ago
    Sure, but that’s on them isn’t it. Should they not identify as their race, religion, creed or culture because you judge them for doing so?
    - daenz 5y ago
      Yes, if that's not what you want to be judged on. When you publicly self identify as something, you are signaling to the world that that is the most relevant lens to view you through.
      - orf 5y ago
        So your judgement on the content of their character is a negative one because they choose to outwardly identify themselves as the race they belong to, and incorporate it into their character? Ok. I guess instead they should suppress that and just act “white” (or whatever the majority race is)?
        daenz 5y ago
        This might come as a shock to you, but you can be judged favorably too. When I applied for grants for dance performances, I never mentioned my gender expression, but the approval committees would tell us that they wanted more "queer voices." But that's not the lens that I wanted them to view my proposal through. Also, I think you need to explain how race is incorporated into a person's character. Maybe start by defining what you think character so that we are using a shared definition. Because I think your different protected characteristics are completely separate and in no way intrinsically linked to your character.
bee_rider 5y ago
Actually we're a bit more on the rails, on that one -- if you haven't heard, skin color was used as a way to identify others at the time, rather than self identify. Then once identified, they were subjected to horrible treatment. The world certainly isn't perfect but it has improved.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > skin color was used as a way to identify others at the time And today. I hear people do it regularly in private contexts, and we also see it in public ones.
  - bee_rider 5y ago
    Sure. A wise man once said, "The world certainly isn't perfect but it has improved."
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      To be clear, in my experience it's worse now than pre-2016, and still a very serious problem.
      - bee_rider 5y ago
        Recent events have emboldened racists for sure, but the original comment was that we've gone off the rails since the King speech, which is a comparison to the Civil Rights Era US. Is it your experience that the post-2016 era is worse than that? I'm white and I wasn't alive at the time, so it isn't my place to judge there, but I'd find that pretty surprising I guess.
        wolverine876 5y ago
        > the original comment was that we've gone off the rails since the King speech, which is a comparison to the Civil Rights Era US. Is it your experience that the post-2016 era is worse than that? I'm white and I wasn't alive at the time, so it isn't my place to judge there, but I'd find that pretty surprising I guess. I wasn't there either. Lots of African-Americans I've spoken to think we are going backward. As a simple example, the Voting Rights Act has been rolled back, and many segregation-era voting restrictions restored. And regardless, the comparision doesn't matter. Better or worse than the early 1960s is not a standard (and it would be a very low one), and does nothing to address what is happening today.
diehunde 5y ago
Being judge by the color of your skin and self identification have nothing to do with each other.
- recursive 5y ago
  The most basic, trite relationship advice we've all heard is that "you must love yourself before you can love someone else". It doesn't seem crazy to suggest that the way one judges one's self affects the way others do.
  - astura 5y ago
    What?
    - recursive 5y ago
      Which part are you confused about?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

systemvoltage 5y ago

This is sadly true. Sorry to see this downvoted.

orf 5y ago

He says nothing about self-identification, but about external judgement. Which I guess you're doing here.

daenz 5y ago
How you self identify has a massive influence on how people externally judge you.
- orf 5y ago
  Sure, but that’s on them isn’t it. Should they not identify as their race, religion, creed or culture because you judge them for doing so?
  - daenz 5y ago
    Yes, if that's not what you want to be judged on. When you publicly self identify as something, you are signaling to the world that that is the most relevant lens to view you through.
    - orf 5y ago
      So your judgement on the content of their character is a negative one because they choose to outwardly identify themselves as the race they belong to, and incorporate it into their character? Ok. I guess instead they should suppress that and just act “white” (or whatever the majority race is)?
      - daenz 5y ago
        This might come as a shock to you, but you can be judged favorably too. When I applied for grants for dance performances, I never mentioned my gender expression, but the approval committees would tell us that they wanted more "queer voices." But that's not the lens that I wanted them to view my proposal through. Also, I think you need to explain how race is incorporated into a person's character. Maybe start by defining what you think character so that we are using a shared definition. Because I think your different protected characteristics are completely separate and in no way intrinsically linked to your character.

bee_rider 5y ago

Actually we're a bit more on the rails, on that one -- if you haven't heard, skin color was used as a way to identify others at the time, rather than self identify. Then once identified, they were subjected to horrible treatment. The world certainly isn't perfect but it has improved.

wolverine876 5y ago
> skin color was used as a way to identify others at the time And today. I hear people do it regularly in private contexts, and we also see it in public ones.
- bee_rider 5y ago
  Sure. A wise man once said, "The world certainly isn't perfect but it has improved."
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    To be clear, in my experience it's worse now than pre-2016, and still a very serious problem.
    - bee_rider 5y ago
      Recent events have emboldened racists for sure, but the original comment was that we've gone off the rails since the King speech, which is a comparison to the Civil Rights Era US. Is it your experience that the post-2016 era is worse than that? I'm white and I wasn't alive at the time, so it isn't my place to judge there, but I'd find that pretty surprising I guess.
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        > the original comment was that we've gone off the rails since the King speech, which is a comparison to the Civil Rights Era US. Is it your experience that the post-2016 era is worse than that? I'm white and I wasn't alive at the time, so it isn't my place to judge there, but I'd find that pretty surprising I guess. I wasn't there either. Lots of African-Americans I've spoken to think we are going backward. As a simple example, the Voting Rights Act has been rolled back, and many segregation-era voting restrictions restored. And regardless, the comparision doesn't matter. Better or worse than the early 1960s is not a standard (and it would be a very low one), and does nothing to address what is happening today.

diehunde 5y ago

Being judge by the color of your skin and self identification have nothing to do with each other.

recursive 5y ago
The most basic, trite relationship advice we've all heard is that "you must love yourself before you can love someone else". It doesn't seem crazy to suggest that the way one judges one's self affects the way others do.
- astura 5y ago
  What?
  - recursive 5y ago
    Which part are you confused about?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]