7 ms·

I find the speech MLK gave a day before he was killed much more relevant today. He calls for unity and challenges our ideals. He spoke on April 3, 1968 and was

I find the speech MLK gave a day before he was killed much more relevant today. He calls for unity and challenges our ideals. He spoke on April 3, 1968 and was assassinated the next day (Chilling sometimes as he discusses his own death). "I've Been to the Mountaintop" https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemountaintop.htm https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemou... A nice special from Democracy Now: https://www.democracynow.org/2022/1/17/mlk_day_special_2022 https://www.democracynow.org/2022/1/17/mlk_day_special_2022

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
It is a good speech ( I have misgivings about the ornate start, but different times and different audience ). My favorite fragment is the following: "If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions. Maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn't committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly." We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech, which is a shame ( doubly so since MLK estate is still milking it[1]). [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/15/54-years-later-you-still-have-to-pay-to-use-martin-luther-king-jr-s-famous-i-have-a-dream-speech/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/...
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  I wouldn’t say it’s a shame. Most people, even enormously consequential people, don’t have any of their own words passed down to history. Which of George Washington’s speeches is wildly read today? “I have a dream” is an amazing speech delivered by an amazing orator. That this once in a generation talent also delivered other great speeches is unsurprising but there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. It deserves its spot.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
    I will admit that I never thought about it like that. The image of fedora wearing individual stating he only listens to unedited audio and insisting that anyone listening to 'dream' speech is part of pop-culture popped into my head . It is funny. I apologize if my comment sounded that way. That was definitely not my intention. I think I am just still a little cranky since kid woke me up early and coffee didn't kick in.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - maroonblazer 5y ago
    Your comment was perfectly ok until this part: >there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment.
    - bradleyjg 5y ago
      A4E seem to take it okay. That it was a funny image was half the reason I included that part. Chillax.
    - jancsika 5y ago
      > You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment. To be fair, OP is responding to an ambiguity. Was GP's point that "I Have a Dream" is great and it's a shame that the wider public doesn't know more of MLK's great speeches? Or was the point that "I Have a Dream" is subpar when compared to the other speeches and thus misrepresents his output? tldr; Was GP saying "I Have a Dream" is the "Beethoven's 5th" of speeches, or "Ravel's Bolero" of speeches? Upshot-- OP is not being generous by jumping on the more divisive interpretation. However, since it is a valid interpretation OP's lack of generosity is based on something and not nothing. Fin.
      - watwut 5y ago
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  > We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. The public image of the man has been watered down to merely opposing segregation and legal discrimination, and all of his more radical economic proposals and opinions tend to be politely ignored. The March on Washington also included a demand for a $2 minimum wage ($17 in 2020 dollars) and self governance for Washington DC, funny how that isn’t mentioned often. Hell, he was helping support a strike when he was assassinated. How many people were taught that before?
  - Taywee 5y ago
    > Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. I don't think so. I think it's more that things get distilled and simplified in public memory naturally. How much of all of all the activities of other greatly-remembered figures are actually all fully remembered and talked about? Do you think the public has anywhere near a complete perception of all the ideals of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln? Unless you are a scholar in the area, you have done specific research out of curiosity, or you have been personally affected by it, most of what you see is the stuff that echos in the public memory, which is the largest events and purest distillation of the ideals and character of the person in question. Human memory is built on patterns, symbols, and stripping of what seems to be unnecessary extraneous information, and this seems to be much more extreme in cultural memory. I don't think there has been any conscious effort to remove the other ideals that King had, it's just not what he did that people care about most right now.
    - watwut 5y ago
      Imo, memory of other great figures and greatly influenced by politics. And often very intentionally, people using their names have agendas. That includes the three people you mentioned.
  - ralusek 5y ago
    That's because ideas shouldn't be bundled together just because a person said them. The I Have A Dream speech is famous precisely because it is the most important/widely agreed upon of his ideas: evaluate individuals according to their own character independently of whatever collective you might otherwise assume characteristics of. That's a good idea. People like that idea. We don't talk about King's socialism as much, because what he said in that arena wasn't particularly revolutionary, and many people don't find socialism to be compelling (myself included). Hence, remembering ideas.
ethbr0 5y ago
To quote the concluding sentences for those who haven't read the whole speech, and which stand on their own as much as any words do... > "Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it really doesn't matter with me now, because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land! And so I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man! Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!"
- syngrog66 5y ago
  powerful and chilling. it is as if he knew. he knew his fate. and he sensed it coming soon. and yet he continued his work anyway. exemplar of American heroism
namelezz 5y ago
With all flashy racial movements and Amendments, US still somehow makes it to the bottom 10 countries for racial equality, even worse than a totalitarian country. There is nothing wrong with US racial system. The survey is wrong. You are doing great. Keep heading to that direction. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-04-13/us-is-one-of-the-10-worst-countries-for-racial-equality https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-04-...
- divbzero 5y ago
  I’m not surprised that people perceive the US to struggle with racial equality when it (a) has indeed struggled with racial equality since founding and through civil war and (b) airs its dirty laundry pretty openly.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    Yeah, I mean police killing innocent black people on the streets is quite public indeed.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
krylon 5y ago
I don't disagree with you. But the "I have a dream" speech will live forever as one of the greatest political speeches, if not THE greatest political speech, both in rhetorics, impact, and content. I remember reading that speech in English class (I'm German), and it left me deeply impressed. The only other speech I read that came close to this was Richard von Weizsäcker's speech commemorating the 40th anniversary of Germany's surrender, ending World War II. MLK was one of those very, very rare figures where the power of their ideas (and ethics!) was matched by the power of their voices. I'd really love to know what the world would look like today if he had not been murdered.
- kirse 5y ago
  Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address has to be in that conversation...
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  The popularity of his whitewashing is indeed an impressive meta-political historical feat.
  - pintxo 5y ago
    Care to elaborate?
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
      Not OP, but MLK was a pretty radical antiwar socialist who spoke of riots as "the language of the unheard," and stated that most Americans are unconscious racists. The final bit of his "I Have a Dream," speech is all most people know of his words today, but before he was assassinated, he was attempting to call people to much greater action.
      - wesleywt 5y ago
        citation needed.
    - 5y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago

It is a good speech ( I have misgivings about the ornate start, but different times and different audience ). My favorite fragment is the following: "If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions. Maybe I could understand the denial of certain basic First Amendment privileges, because they hadn't committed themselves to that over there. But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly." We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech, which is a shame ( doubly so since MLK estate is still milking it[1]). [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/15/54-years-later-you-still-have-to-pay-to-use-martin-luther-king-jr-s-famous-i-have-a-dream-speech/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/01/...

bradleyjg 5y ago
I wouldn’t say it’s a shame. Most people, even enormously consequential people, don’t have any of their own words passed down to history. Which of George Washington’s speeches is wildly read today? “I have a dream” is an amazing speech delivered by an amazing orator. That this once in a generation talent also delivered other great speeches is unsurprising but there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. It deserves its spot.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  I will admit that I never thought about it like that. The image of fedora wearing individual stating he only listens to unedited audio and insisting that anyone listening to 'dream' speech is part of pop-culture popped into my head . It is funny. I apologize if my comment sounded that way. That was definitely not my intention. I think I am just still a little cranky since kid woke me up early and coffee didn't kick in.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- maroonblazer 5y ago
  Your comment was perfectly ok until this part: >there’s no need to denigrate the special place that IHaD has in our society out of some hipster-esque desire to demonstrate true fandom. You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    A4E seem to take it okay. That it was a funny image was half the reason I included that part. Chillax.
  - jancsika 5y ago
    > You're imputing a lot of motives based on nothing in the parent comment. To be fair, OP is responding to an ambiguity. Was GP's point that "I Have a Dream" is great and it's a shame that the wider public doesn't know more of MLK's great speeches? Or was the point that "I Have a Dream" is subpar when compared to the other speeches and thus misrepresents his output? tldr; Was GP saying "I Have a Dream" is the "Beethoven's 5th" of speeches, or "Ravel's Bolero" of speeches? Upshot-- OP is not being generous by jumping on the more divisive interpretation. However, since it is a valid interpretation OP's lack of generosity is based on something and not nothing. Fin.
    - watwut 5y ago
ashtonkem 5y ago
> We tend to only hear the 'dream' speech Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. The public image of the man has been watered down to merely opposing segregation and legal discrimination, and all of his more radical economic proposals and opinions tend to be politely ignored. The March on Washington also included a demand for a $2 minimum wage ($17 in 2020 dollars) and self governance for Washington DC, funny how that isn’t mentioned often. Hell, he was helping support a strike when he was assassinated. How many people were taught that before?
- Taywee 5y ago
  > Cynically I think there has been a political project to expunge most of King’s ideas from the public memory, leaving only those that everyone is comfortable with. I don't think so. I think it's more that things get distilled and simplified in public memory naturally. How much of all of all the activities of other greatly-remembered figures are actually all fully remembered and talked about? Do you think the public has anywhere near a complete perception of all the ideals of Gandhi, Mother Theresa, George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln? Unless you are a scholar in the area, you have done specific research out of curiosity, or you have been personally affected by it, most of what you see is the stuff that echos in the public memory, which is the largest events and purest distillation of the ideals and character of the person in question. Human memory is built on patterns, symbols, and stripping of what seems to be unnecessary extraneous information, and this seems to be much more extreme in cultural memory. I don't think there has been any conscious effort to remove the other ideals that King had, it's just not what he did that people care about most right now.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Imo, memory of other great figures and greatly influenced by politics. And often very intentionally, people using their names have agendas. That includes the three people you mentioned.
- ralusek 5y ago
  That's because ideas shouldn't be bundled together just because a person said them. The I Have A Dream speech is famous precisely because it is the most important/widely agreed upon of his ideas: evaluate individuals according to their own character independently of whatever collective you might otherwise assume characteristics of. That's a good idea. People like that idea. We don't talk about King's socialism as much, because what he said in that arena wasn't particularly revolutionary, and many people don't find socialism to be compelling (myself included). Hence, remembering ideas.

ethbr0 5y ago

To quote the concluding sentences for those who haven't read the whole speech, and which stand on their own as much as any words do... > "Well, I don't know what will happen now. We've got some difficult days ahead. But it really doesn't matter with me now, because I've been to the mountaintop. And I don't mind. Like anybody, I would like to live a long life. Longevity has its place. But I'm not concerned about that now. I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the promised land! And so I'm happy, tonight. I'm not worried about anything. I'm not fearing any man! Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord!"

syngrog66 5y ago
powerful and chilling. it is as if he knew. he knew his fate. and he sensed it coming soon. and yet he continued his work anyway. exemplar of American heroism

namelezz 5y ago

With all flashy racial movements and Amendments, US still somehow makes it to the bottom 10 countries for racial equality, even worse than a totalitarian country. There is nothing wrong with US racial system. The survey is wrong. You are doing great. Keep heading to that direction. [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-04-13/us-is-one-of-the-10-worst-countries-for-racial-equality https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2021-04-...

divbzero 5y ago
I’m not surprised that people perceive the US to struggle with racial equality when it (a) has indeed struggled with racial equality since founding and through civil war and (b) airs its dirty laundry pretty openly.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  Yeah, I mean police killing innocent black people on the streets is quite public indeed.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

krylon 5y ago

I don't disagree with you. But the "I have a dream" speech will live forever as one of the greatest political speeches, if not THE greatest political speech, both in rhetorics, impact, and content. I remember reading that speech in English class (I'm German), and it left me deeply impressed. The only other speech I read that came close to this was Richard von Weizsäcker's speech commemorating the 40th anniversary of Germany's surrender, ending World War II. MLK was one of those very, very rare figures where the power of their ideas (and ethics!) was matched by the power of their voices. I'd really love to know what the world would look like today if he had not been murdered.

kirse 5y ago
Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address has to be in that conversation...
avgcorrection 5y ago
The popularity of his whitewashing is indeed an impressive meta-political historical feat.
- pintxo 5y ago
  Care to elaborate?
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Not OP, but MLK was a pretty radical antiwar socialist who spoke of riots as "the language of the unheard," and stated that most Americans are unconscious racists. The final bit of his "I Have a Dream," speech is all most people know of his words today, but before he was assassinated, he was attempting to call people to much greater action.
    - wesleywt 5y ago
      citation needed.
  - 5y ago