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But we are speaking English here. If we were talking about the Austrian city we would say Vienna, not Wien.

by iqanq 5y ago

SonicScrub 5y ago
"Hawaii" is not just an English translation of "Hawaiʻi". The Gvoernment officially refers to the state of Hawaii as "Hawaii", and the largest island in the archipelago as "Hawaiʻi", as you can see through this National Parks document detailing the naming conventions: https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/DownloadFile/575333#:~:text=The%20name%20of%20the%20state,same%20name%20is%20Hawai'i https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/DownloadFile/575333#:~:text=T.... > The name of the state, Hawaii, is not written with an ‘okina between the two "i", because our Statehood Act in 1959 used the spelling "Hawaii." An Act of Congress is required to "correct" the name of the state to Hawai‘i. Thus, the name of the state is Hawaii, while the name of the island of the same name is Hawai‘i.
- iqanq 5y ago
  The Government of Austria also refers to the city of Vienna as Wien but we are not going to say Wien here.
  - SkittyDog 5y ago
  - SonicScrub 5y ago
    The document I've linked is written by an English speaking government, to convey to other English speakers on how to properly write the name of something within it's territorial borders. That same writing convention is also used by the local government, the citizens who live in that location, and indigenous population. This is not akin to multiple names for various locations in different languages (e.g. Vienna and Wien). The name of the island in English IS "Hawai'i" as defined by both the government who controls that island, and the culture on that island. Ergo, when writing the term in English, we should use "Hawai'i". Misspelling "Hawai'i" as "Hawaii" is an understandably common error akin to how sometimes people use "Holland" and "The Netherlands" interchangeably (despite one being simply a region in the other). But make no mistake, the name in English for the country is The Netherlands, and the name in English for the region is Holland. Similarly, the name in English for the state is Hawaii, and the name in English for the island is Hawai'i. I find it strange that you are so insistent on this.
nerdponx 5y ago
In addition to the sibling comment explaining the difference, consider that Vienna is an old city with many equivalent names in many languages. These names developed naturally over an extended period of time. Hawaii does not have an equivalent history and so has no equivalent name in English. If the (English-speaking) people who live in such a place want to spell it in a specific way, what kind of an arrogant ass are you to tell them otherwise? Are you going to also bristle at and take umbrage with the spelling "Reykjavík" instead of "Reykjavik"?
SkittyDog 5y ago
Actually, we're not speaking anything here... We're WRITING the name. If you want to be pedantic about it, you could at least get that right. English spelling of transliterated names borrowed from other languages is pretty arbitrary. There isn't really a "correct" version of English spelling for any word, let alone words that did not originate in English, and which contain phonetic features that do not natively exist in English, and for which written English has limited conventional support. Just ask anybody with surname imported from China or Korea to the US... There are often multiple valid spellings of the same name,supportinging on the vagaries of time period, accent, and immigration authorities. There is no single unified "correct" definition of any of these words, any more than there is a correct definition of the best shade of blue. You may be confusing what YOU were taught for some kind of world standard... If so, I should point out that you sound like a jingoist. Are you deliberately trying to provoke people, or are you simply ignorant?
jonathanlb 5y ago
And would we say Saint Francis instead of San Francisco? Holy Cross instead of Santa Cruz? At the Great Hill instead of Massachussetts?

But we are speaking English here. If we were talking about the Austrian city we would say Vienna, not Wien.

by iqanq 5y ago

But we are speaking English here. If we were talking about the Austrian city we would say Vienna, not Wien.

"Hawaii" is not just an English translation of "Hawaiʻi". The Gvoernment officially refers to the state of Hawaii as "Hawaii", and the largest island in the archipelago as "Hawaiʻi", as you can see through this National Parks document detailing the naming conventions: https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/DownloadFile/575333#:~:text=The%20name%20of%20the%20state,same%20name%20is%20Hawai'i https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/DownloadFile/575333#:~:text=T.... > The name of the state, Hawaii, is not written with an ‘okina between the two "i", because our Statehood Act in 1959 used the spelling "Hawaii." An Act of Congress is required to "correct" the name of the state to Hawai‘i. Thus, the name of the state is Hawaii, while the name of the island of the same name is Hawai‘i.

iqanq 5y ago
The Government of Austria also refers to the city of Vienna as Wien but we are not going to say Wien here.
- SkittyDog 5y ago
- SonicScrub 5y ago
  The document I've linked is written by an English speaking government, to convey to other English speakers on how to properly write the name of something within it's territorial borders. That same writing convention is also used by the local government, the citizens who live in that location, and indigenous population. This is not akin to multiple names for various locations in different languages (e.g. Vienna and Wien). The name of the island in English IS "Hawai'i" as defined by both the government who controls that island, and the culture on that island. Ergo, when writing the term in English, we should use "Hawai'i". Misspelling "Hawai'i" as "Hawaii" is an understandably common error akin to how sometimes people use "Holland" and "The Netherlands" interchangeably (despite one being simply a region in the other). But make no mistake, the name in English for the country is The Netherlands, and the name in English for the region is Holland. Similarly, the name in English for the state is Hawaii, and the name in English for the island is Hawai'i. I find it strange that you are so insistent on this.

nerdponx 5y ago

In addition to the sibling comment explaining the difference, consider that Vienna is an old city with many equivalent names in many languages. These names developed naturally over an extended period of time. Hawaii does not have an equivalent history and so has no equivalent name in English. If the (English-speaking) people who live in such a place want to spell it in a specific way, what kind of an arrogant ass are you to tell them otherwise? Are you going to also bristle at and take umbrage with the spelling "Reykjavík" instead of "Reykjavik"?

SkittyDog 5y ago

Actually, we're not speaking anything here... We're WRITING the name. If you want to be pedantic about it, you could at least get that right. English spelling of transliterated names borrowed from other languages is pretty arbitrary. There isn't really a "correct" version of English spelling for any word, let alone words that did not originate in English, and which contain phonetic features that do not natively exist in English, and for which written English has limited conventional support. Just ask anybody with surname imported from China or Korea to the US... There are often multiple valid spellings of the same name,supportinging on the vagaries of time period, accent, and immigration authorities. There is no single unified "correct" definition of any of these words, any more than there is a correct definition of the best shade of blue. You may be confusing what YOU were taught for some kind of world standard... If so, I should point out that you sound like a jingoist. Are you deliberately trying to provoke people, or are you simply ignorant?

jonathanlb 5y ago

And would we say Saint Francis instead of San Francisco? Holy Cross instead of Santa Cruz? At the Great Hill instead of Massachussetts?