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I really hope Netflix proves everyone wrong. HBO and Disney+ may have a huge advantage but neither seems interested in the tech side. Disney+ may be OK now (it'

I really hope Netflix proves everyone wrong. HBO and Disney+ may have a huge advantage but neither seems interested in the tech side. Disney+ may be OK now (it's been a while since I checked) but HBO Max seems to be extremely inconsistent when it comes to streaming quality. Even new, popular shows like Euphoria on HBO Max are only 1080p with a bitrate so low that the frequent, dimly lit scenes are a blocky mess. At the same time, AAA movies like Dune stream in nearly Bluray quality. Meanwhile even dumb reality shows on Netflix still stream with suburb quality. IMO assuming Netflix doubles down on original content which seems to be the assumed direction, they have two strategies. Strategy one is to produce/distribute content that is developed outside the US where production is much cheaper and existing production companies have less of an advantage. Partnering with local, smaller production outfits is probably a good strategy. Strategy two is to use their tech advantage to lower the cost of content production. I'm quite surprised that we haven't seen Netflix create a Holodeck-esque production method. The Mandalorian (Disney+/Holodeck) and The Witcher Season 1(Netflix) have somewhat similar production costs per episode at ~$15M and ~$10M respectively but The Mandalorian had significantly more and better CG then The Witcher so clearly the Holodeck method has a lot of benefits and cost savings. That said Squid Game only had a total budget of ~$21M, although a lot lighter on CG, strategy one offers a more cost savings.

nirvdrum 5y ago
I dropped Netflix about a year ago in no small part because any show with dark scenes (e.g., "Stranger Things") look like a blocky mess in HD. For a while, I thought somehow my network was at fault, but I don't have the issue with other services. When I looked into it, it seems Netflix's HD compression is bad on OLED displays and the "solution" is to pay them a premium to get 4K streams. Meanwhile, the other providers include 4K in their base offering and things generally look great.
- pil4rin 5y ago
  How would the compression change for OLED vs standard LCD etc? I guess it could be generally bad but only noticeable on a OLED?
  - nirvdrum 5y ago
    OLEDs can display true black whereas standard LCDs cannot. If the black regions are compressed and blacks become something close to black, but not quite, it looks bad on an OLED as that region is illuminated. Netflix appears to compress blacks very heavily, so you end up with large rectangles of slightly different dark shades, none of which are really black. I'm not an expert on panel technology, but I think because LCDs have a backlight, the issue isn't as pronounced there. It just kinda washes out.
    - dehrmann 5y ago
      I want to trust that the codecs know that it's hard to see dark, so I wonder if the displays are being calibrated incorrectly, maybe to pump up the brightness for the showroom.
      - nirvdrum 5y ago
        Fortunately, Netflix is the only service exhibiting this issue. Blu-rays look great in 1080p and UHD. Other streaming services look good as well. I've also tried Netflix on multiple devices connected to the TV. In all cases, the Netflix HD stream is distractingly blocky during dark scenes. My best guess is their choice of codec and compression settings predate OLED availability and they don't want to re-encode and just expect people to upgrade to their 4K plan. I've never had their 4K plan, so I can't say whether that truly addresses the problem.
    - praseodym 5y ago
      I've also seen this issue on regular LCD TVs with HD streams. It can get really pronounced in scenes with slow camera movement where a static dark background turns into a blocky, jumpy mess of compression artifacts.
- aeternum 5y ago
  The 4k subscription is easy to share with friends/family and looks great on OLED. Getting a group together to split subscriptions is something that really wasn't possible with cable but greatly increases the value of these services.
- KingMachiavelli 5y ago
  That is not surprising. If you aren't paying for the highest bitrate stream then it's not a fair comparison. HBO Max's highest bitrate is far more like Netflix's mid-tier option. What's weird is that movies that were released on HBO Max like Dune are in great quality and a much higher bitrate. TBH it's a bit strange to pay the premium for an OLED but then not be willing to pay for the highest bitrate. The fact that it's called 4K and it's technically in 4K is a bit misleading. Plus having Dolby Vision will make a huge difference when watching on an OLED.
  - nirvdrum 5y ago
    I'm not sure what's unfair about the comparison. No other 1080p source I've tried has this problem. OTA TV, HDHomeRun, Plex, Hulu, Disney+, Amazon, Apple TV+, Vudu, HBO Now -> Max, video game consoles, Blu-ray, and some others. I don't care too much about what the underlying bitrate is. I have a 350 Mbps connection and expect the stream to eventually settle on something high quality. Netflix's HD plan is more expensive than any of the others'. For that, I'd expect the stream to not suck. Some of those services do stream content in 4K and I agree that's not a fair comparison, but they do have HD content and they don't upcharge for the 4K stuff. Keep in mind, it's not like it's Netflix alerted me to a problem. I've used the LG built-in app, so they know what TV I have. I just had shows with crappy scenes for a long time.
PoignardAzur 5y ago
> Disney+ may have a huge advantage but neither seems interested in the tech side. Anecdotally, having interviewed for Disney Streaming, they seemed extremely interested in the tech side.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  The entire streaming division (DSS) was born out of BAMTech, the pioneer of streaming media. There is no place other than DSS that has that kind of tech pedigree in regards to streaming.
- coryfklein 5y ago
  Wow your interview anecdote is totally different from mine. My interview at Disney+ was one of the weirdest I've ever had. Really open ended questions, but the interviewer was looking for very specific answers. At one point the interviewer just laid back in his chair and closed their eyes for a few minutes. I came away really confused and – unsurprisingly – without an offer but not really sure what I was expected to have done differently.

nirvdrum 5y ago

I dropped Netflix about a year ago in no small part because any show with dark scenes (e.g., "Stranger Things") look like a blocky mess in HD. For a while, I thought somehow my network was at fault, but I don't have the issue with other services. When I looked into it, it seems Netflix's HD compression is bad on OLED displays and the "solution" is to pay them a premium to get 4K streams. Meanwhile, the other providers include 4K in their base offering and things generally look great.

pil4rin 5y ago
How would the compression change for OLED vs standard LCD etc? I guess it could be generally bad but only noticeable on a OLED?
- nirvdrum 5y ago
  OLEDs can display true black whereas standard LCDs cannot. If the black regions are compressed and blacks become something close to black, but not quite, it looks bad on an OLED as that region is illuminated. Netflix appears to compress blacks very heavily, so you end up with large rectangles of slightly different dark shades, none of which are really black. I'm not an expert on panel technology, but I think because LCDs have a backlight, the issue isn't as pronounced there. It just kinda washes out.
  - dehrmann 5y ago
    I want to trust that the codecs know that it's hard to see dark, so I wonder if the displays are being calibrated incorrectly, maybe to pump up the brightness for the showroom.
    - nirvdrum 5y ago
      Fortunately, Netflix is the only service exhibiting this issue. Blu-rays look great in 1080p and UHD. Other streaming services look good as well. I've also tried Netflix on multiple devices connected to the TV. In all cases, the Netflix HD stream is distractingly blocky during dark scenes. My best guess is their choice of codec and compression settings predate OLED availability and they don't want to re-encode and just expect people to upgrade to their 4K plan. I've never had their 4K plan, so I can't say whether that truly addresses the problem.
  - praseodym 5y ago
    I've also seen this issue on regular LCD TVs with HD streams. It can get really pronounced in scenes with slow camera movement where a static dark background turns into a blocky, jumpy mess of compression artifacts.
aeternum 5y ago
The 4k subscription is easy to share with friends/family and looks great on OLED. Getting a group together to split subscriptions is something that really wasn't possible with cable but greatly increases the value of these services.
KingMachiavelli 5y ago
That is not surprising. If you aren't paying for the highest bitrate stream then it's not a fair comparison. HBO Max's highest bitrate is far more like Netflix's mid-tier option. What's weird is that movies that were released on HBO Max like Dune are in great quality and a much higher bitrate. TBH it's a bit strange to pay the premium for an OLED but then not be willing to pay for the highest bitrate. The fact that it's called 4K and it's technically in 4K is a bit misleading. Plus having Dolby Vision will make a huge difference when watching on an OLED.
- nirvdrum 5y ago
  I'm not sure what's unfair about the comparison. No other 1080p source I've tried has this problem. OTA TV, HDHomeRun, Plex, Hulu, Disney+, Amazon, Apple TV+, Vudu, HBO Now -> Max, video game consoles, Blu-ray, and some others. I don't care too much about what the underlying bitrate is. I have a 350 Mbps connection and expect the stream to eventually settle on something high quality. Netflix's HD plan is more expensive than any of the others'. For that, I'd expect the stream to not suck. Some of those services do stream content in 4K and I agree that's not a fair comparison, but they do have HD content and they don't upcharge for the 4K stuff. Keep in mind, it's not like it's Netflix alerted me to a problem. I've used the LG built-in app, so they know what TV I have. I just had shows with crappy scenes for a long time.

PoignardAzur 5y ago

> Disney+ may have a huge advantage but neither seems interested in the tech side. Anecdotally, having interviewed for Disney Streaming, they seemed extremely interested in the tech side.

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
The entire streaming division (DSS) was born out of BAMTech, the pioneer of streaming media. There is no place other than DSS that has that kind of tech pedigree in regards to streaming.
coryfklein 5y ago
Wow your interview anecdote is totally different from mine. My interview at Disney+ was one of the weirdest I've ever had. Really open ended questions, but the interviewer was looking for very specific answers. At one point the interviewer just laid back in his chair and closed their eyes for a few minutes. I came away really confused and – unsurprisingly – without an offer but not really sure what I was expected to have done differently.