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It's brilliant but not simple at all. You can't just mint an NFT, wash trade it up to a large number and then expect somebody to buy it. This plan would almost

by fleddr 5y ago

It's brilliant but not simple at all. You can't just mint an NFT, wash trade it up to a large number and then expect somebody to buy it. This plan would almost always fail. Because it would pop out of nowhere and nobody has ever heard of you. So just like in the traditional art world, you need to be visible and networked. It's very educational to simply browse the big marketplaces. You'll notice that the typical NFT gets zero offers. Almost all trading happens within a tiny scope of hot projects.

spoiler 5y ago
> Because it would pop out of nowhere and nobody has ever heard of you. Isn't that everything in the crypto space right now? > So just like in the traditional art world, you need to be visible and networked. People who spend hundreds, if not thousands, on procgen chimpanzee/monkey avatar NFTs would beg to differ.
- fleddr 5y ago
  I mean known in the crypto community. Surely a random person in the street has never heard of most crypto celebrities, but that wasn't my point. The monkey NFTs that you mention are a perfect example, because they are the best known project after cryptopunks. Massive media reach, real world celebrities and almost all crypto influencers are in. That's what I mean when I say they didn't come out of nowhere. These high value NFT projects come from massive marketing machines to create the hype. You as rando can't just draw something and sell your NFT for a million, it doesn't work that way.
  - spoiler 5y ago
    > I mean known in the crypto community. Surely a random person in the street has never heard of most crypto celebrities, but that wasn't my point. It might be due to my misconceptions about the crypto space then, but I always assumed people just kinda "pop up" relatively often (even if we just constrain this to within the crypto community). The whole crypto space seems to be very very "fast moving" to me, if that makes sense? Back to the monkey avatar NFTs: I was under the impression those also just popped up. There's obviously a "ramp" towards reaching popularity in any community, but that ramp seems to be short (within the crypto community). Also, people will invest in any crypto-game/nft for promise of future profits, regardless whether they believe in the product/nft; they're going for coverage. This is fine for people with cash to burn, but there's more victims than heroes in the get-rich-fast crypto rush. Or is this perception wrong (it might very well be)?
    - fleddr 5y ago
      I had a deeper look into it, and it looks like you're right, the apes actually are an example of overnight success: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/bayc-bored-ape-yacht-club-nft-interview-1250461/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/bayc-bored... So it's a bad example from my side to explain what would be a more planned launch, which may include a setup with marketplaces to get it on the homepage, and the paying of crypto influencers to shill the project. Your perception on crypto gaming is correct. It's a hot market right now where many believe we're at the very beginning. Everybody wants to be early so they buy any game-related shitcoin.
miracle2k 5y ago
You would be correct. The wash-trade yourself to popularity thing is frankly a flight of fancy that is a symptom of the larger poverty of the sceptic argument. Sure you can identify some self-trading: to farm some new upstart marketplace airdrop, or maybe its a dev experimenting, or maybe someone is doing say a flashloan for fun and attention. But show us a collection or artist who "made" it using this strategy, I'll be waiting. Rather than setting up a web of fake wallets, spending lots of money on gas, then getting almost certainly be caught (how much wash trading and realistic-looking wallet activity do you have to generate to sell out a 10k item collection?!), you can instead pay some crypto influencers to shill your project, or mint. The reality is: reputation in this space is everything.

by fleddr 5y ago

spoiler 5y ago

> Because it would pop out of nowhere and nobody has ever heard of you. Isn't that everything in the crypto space right now? > So just like in the traditional art world, you need to be visible and networked. People who spend hundreds, if not thousands, on procgen chimpanzee/monkey avatar NFTs would beg to differ.

fleddr 5y ago
I mean known in the crypto community. Surely a random person in the street has never heard of most crypto celebrities, but that wasn't my point. The monkey NFTs that you mention are a perfect example, because they are the best known project after cryptopunks. Massive media reach, real world celebrities and almost all crypto influencers are in. That's what I mean when I say they didn't come out of nowhere. These high value NFT projects come from massive marketing machines to create the hype. You as rando can't just draw something and sell your NFT for a million, it doesn't work that way.
- spoiler 5y ago
  > I mean known in the crypto community. Surely a random person in the street has never heard of most crypto celebrities, but that wasn't my point. It might be due to my misconceptions about the crypto space then, but I always assumed people just kinda "pop up" relatively often (even if we just constrain this to within the crypto community). The whole crypto space seems to be very very "fast moving" to me, if that makes sense? Back to the monkey avatar NFTs: I was under the impression those also just popped up. There's obviously a "ramp" towards reaching popularity in any community, but that ramp seems to be short (within the crypto community). Also, people will invest in any crypto-game/nft for promise of future profits, regardless whether they believe in the product/nft; they're going for coverage. This is fine for people with cash to burn, but there's more victims than heroes in the get-rich-fast crypto rush. Or is this perception wrong (it might very well be)?
  - fleddr 5y ago
    I had a deeper look into it, and it looks like you're right, the apes actually are an example of overnight success: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/bayc-bored-ape-yacht-club-nft-interview-1250461/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/bayc-bored... So it's a bad example from my side to explain what would be a more planned launch, which may include a setup with marketplaces to get it on the homepage, and the paying of crypto influencers to shill the project. Your perception on crypto gaming is correct. It's a hot market right now where many believe we're at the very beginning. Everybody wants to be early so they buy any game-related shitcoin.

miracle2k 5y ago

You would be correct. The wash-trade yourself to popularity thing is frankly a flight of fancy that is a symptom of the larger poverty of the sceptic argument. Sure you can identify some self-trading: to farm some new upstart marketplace airdrop, or maybe its a dev experimenting, or maybe someone is doing say a flashloan for fun and attention. But show us a collection or artist who "made" it using this strategy, I'll be waiting. Rather than setting up a web of fake wallets, spending lots of money on gas, then getting almost certainly be caught (how much wash trading and realistic-looking wallet activity do you have to generate to sell out a 10k item collection?!), you can instead pay some crypto influencers to shill your project, or mint. The reality is: reputation in this space is everything.