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Ugh.... this is tragic. The legacy of the US's impact on Hawai'ians is already bad, and there's still resentment towards the way non-native people treat the isl

Ugh.... this is tragic. The legacy of the US's impact on Hawai'ians is already bad, and there's still resentment towards the way non-native people treat the island and its people. Of all the things to destroy, the beaches and the water.... not only are they basically sacred, they're also the lifeblood of tourism (which the military couldn't care less about, but it's pretty damn significant to the local economy)

xbar 5y ago
Every US Navy base is a toxic waste catastrophe, even the ones that have long been closed. Systemic problems in waste management on military base land stem from defense budgets that go to fun, sexy projects and toxic waste cleanup budgets that are for civilian sites only. Expect all 20th century Navy bases to pollute indefinitely. Hawai'i particularly sad because everyone knows what a loss it is. The death of places like the San Francisco Bay ecosystems are less visible.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  > the San Francisco Bay ecosystems pointers?
  - edoceo 5y ago
    Try searching about Suisun Bay and NAS Alameda. They've had some significant pollution issues.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Almost every military base and aerospace contractor. A nearby high school is going to be a superfund site soon because after WW2, some jackass decided to just dump toxic chemicals, and the underground plume is migrating faster than the remediation efforts. If you look at a map of pollution sites, it’s pretty easy to see where defense related stuff was active 1940-1980. Look around Stanford, the old Grumman facilities on Long Island and Burlington, MA.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Almost every military base and aerospace contractor, not just navy. A nearby high school is going to be a superfund site soon because after WW2, some jackass decided to just dump toxic chemicals, and the underground plume is migrating faster than the remediation efforts. If you look at a map of pollution sites, it’s pretty easy to see where defense related stuff was active 1940-1980. Look around Stanford, the old Grumman facilities on Long Island and Burlington, MA.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    But, but...Spiderman! And the Hulk!
mistrial9 5y ago
> resentment towards the way non-native people treat the island and its people you forgot, giant, muscular and overweight guys who rule by being the biggest and baddest on the Island. Its a thing, but they lost. Not to the USA, but to a series of really exploitive, unimaginably exploitive settlers, who then were thrown back to their own lands by force by other people that had industrial arms, uniforms, ships larger than your village, compass and other things. The result being a democratic government, but also the Bishop Museum scandal and you know, Larry Ellison (edit almost) owning an Island. The novel 'Hawaii' by James Michner is a palatable retelling of some of that. (spoiler: death and cruelty in the most beautiful place imaginable) the real story is quite disturbing all around.. I agree with the anti-pollution part, however.. toxics are also no joke.
- mbg721 5y ago
  So, about the success of Samoans in football...
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    we call it "rugby" in the USA, and, that is important !
- vmception 5y ago
  The US state of Hawai’i sold an island to Larry Ellison 10 years ago I really have doubts that the independent sovereign kingdom would have done it any differently I think it dilutes the independence message as its the worst example of colonization
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    Hawaii elite were clever enough to realize America was going to take Hawaii no matter what. Independence was never an option. It could have gone the way of Puerto Rico- at least Hawaii is a State which makes them technically equal to the mainland.
    - 5y ago
RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
Its not tourists dumping fridges and cars on the side of the road and along the highway. Its not tourists polluting the beaches or driving over turtles with their fishing boats. There is a real misconception around the issues in hawaii and where the sources and sinks of environmental damage are found.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  It is tourists creating the local economic conditions (tourism industry lobby) that preclude running any sort of real industry which is why those fridges are on the side of the road and not crushed and in a dumpster at the local scrap metal recycler. The fisherman running over turtles (and all the other "fuck everyone but me) behavior is just how things work anywhere tourism is a major industry. When a large chunk of the local economy is dependent on single time transactions with outsiders it creates an massive trickle down incentive to behave that way. You see this same shit in base towns, college towns or any other dump where most of the monetary input is lifted from the pockets of short term transient residents that there is no incentive to do honest business with. Source: lived it, but not on Hawaii

xbar 5y ago

Every US Navy base is a toxic waste catastrophe, even the ones that have long been closed. Systemic problems in waste management on military base land stem from defense budgets that go to fun, sexy projects and toxic waste cleanup budgets that are for civilian sites only. Expect all 20th century Navy bases to pollute indefinitely. Hawai'i particularly sad because everyone knows what a loss it is. The death of places like the San Francisco Bay ecosystems are less visible.

mistrial9 5y ago
> the San Francisco Bay ecosystems pointers?
- edoceo 5y ago
  Try searching about Suisun Bay and NAS Alameda. They've had some significant pollution issues.
Spooky23 5y ago
Almost every military base and aerospace contractor. A nearby high school is going to be a superfund site soon because after WW2, some jackass decided to just dump toxic chemicals, and the underground plume is migrating faster than the remediation efforts. If you look at a map of pollution sites, it’s pretty easy to see where defense related stuff was active 1940-1980. Look around Stanford, the old Grumman facilities on Long Island and Burlington, MA.
Spooky23 5y ago
Almost every military base and aerospace contractor, not just navy. A nearby high school is going to be a superfund site soon because after WW2, some jackass decided to just dump toxic chemicals, and the underground plume is migrating faster than the remediation efforts. If you look at a map of pollution sites, it’s pretty easy to see where defense related stuff was active 1940-1980. Look around Stanford, the old Grumman facilities on Long Island and Burlington, MA.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  But, but...Spiderman! And the Hulk!

mistrial9 5y ago

> resentment towards the way non-native people treat the island and its people you forgot, giant, muscular and overweight guys who rule by being the biggest and baddest on the Island. Its a thing, but they lost. Not to the USA, but to a series of really exploitive, unimaginably exploitive settlers, who then were thrown back to their own lands by force by other people that had industrial arms, uniforms, ships larger than your village, compass and other things. The result being a democratic government, but also the Bishop Museum scandal and you know, Larry Ellison (edit almost) owning an Island. The novel 'Hawaii' by James Michner is a palatable retelling of some of that. (spoiler: death and cruelty in the most beautiful place imaginable) the real story is quite disturbing all around.. I agree with the anti-pollution part, however.. toxics are also no joke.

mbg721 5y ago
So, about the success of Samoans in football...
- mistrial9 5y ago
  we call it "rugby" in the USA, and, that is important !
vmception 5y ago
The US state of Hawai’i sold an island to Larry Ellison 10 years ago I really have doubts that the independent sovereign kingdom would have done it any differently I think it dilutes the independence message as its the worst example of colonization
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  Hawaii elite were clever enough to realize America was going to take Hawaii no matter what. Independence was never an option. It could have gone the way of Puerto Rico- at least Hawaii is a State which makes them technically equal to the mainland.
  - 5y ago

RosanaAnaDana 5y ago

Its not tourists dumping fridges and cars on the side of the road and along the highway. Its not tourists polluting the beaches or driving over turtles with their fishing boats. There is a real misconception around the issues in hawaii and where the sources and sinks of environmental damage are found.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It is tourists creating the local economic conditions (tourism industry lobby) that preclude running any sort of real industry which is why those fridges are on the side of the road and not crushed and in a dumpster at the local scrap metal recycler. The fisherman running over turtles (and all the other "fuck everyone but me) behavior is just how things work anywhere tourism is a major industry. When a large chunk of the local economy is dependent on single time transactions with outsiders it creates an massive trickle down incentive to behave that way. You see this same shit in base towns, college towns or any other dump where most of the monetary input is lifted from the pockets of short term transient residents that there is no incentive to do honest business with. Source: lived it, but not on Hawaii