14 ms·

Effortless personal productivity (or how I learned to love my monkey mind)

429 points by jakobgreenfeld 5y ago

ahilsa 5y ago
Terry Tao has a somewhat similar method https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/batch-low-intensity-tasks-together/ https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/batch-low-inten...
probotect0r 5y ago
I would recommend the book "Peak Mind" for those looking to get into meditation to improve their mental awareness and tame the monkey mind. It goes over some of the science and research behind how attention works (in simple terms) and outlines a clear meditation regime you can implement (just 12 minutes a day, 5 days a week).
Tim25659 5y ago
When I am stressed out monkey mind will get stronger and stronger I will be out of control..
- godDLL 5y ago
  I put my monkey in a cage. I went around and logged the things I happen to be doing in a spreadsheet for three weeks. Assuming those are mostly the things I'll be doing going forward I've categorized them into action-cards. Those have groupings by space (home, out, job) and time (night, noon, morning). One card is titled BURN. If you play that card you can do whatever for 25 minutes, but you can't play two in a row. I set a timer. Then I have to choose a card to play, from the things I actually do. Set a timer. When that's up choose a card again. There is a card called SLEEP, it has a checklist. Similarly EAT/COOK has both instructions and time limits. I ended up with more than 15 but less than 30 cards. And the single point of failure is in set-timer to choose card loop. This goes away after about 20 days where it becomes a habit. There was another point of failure, but now there is a CALLS card that is limited to two times a day, and the phone is otherwise offline. Battery life is 5x. Contentness is 1.0 Try it.
  - fizzbar 5y ago
    thank you for sharing such a detailed and simple workflow!
  - serverlessmom 5y ago
    This is a really interesting technique! I'm happy this is working so well for you. Would make an interesting app though I suppose that would put you back on your phone.
    - godDLL 5y ago
      Yeah, it would have to take over my phone excepting the two CALLS windows a day. Otherwise I'll find it very easy to BURN away. And the most noticeable thing it did to my well being is a drastic reduction in ambient anxiety and proclivity to negative emotion. It is like what SSRI are supposed to be, but for real.
      - serverlessmom 5y ago
        A reduction in overall ambient anxiety is definitely a worthy goal for anyone. Do you feel like this might be partially due to the fact that being on your phone less gave you less access over all time to be exposed to the news?
        godDLL 5y ago
        No, that would be old news. I was never, ever the guy to pick up my phone aimlessly. It was always to a) swipe away the bullshit, and b) do the important thing. I don't think I am in any way affected by the dopey loops the news pull on you. In fact, I check out news when I overhear something or when there is no development for weeks on an issue that directly affects me. Never otherwise. I don't own a TV since 1999 at least.
  - brimble 5y ago
    At first I was like "but with those rules you could play BURN every other card, and that's not good" then I realized that if I'd only wasted half of an average waking day for the last couple decades, I'd probably be god-emperor of humanity. This does seem quite a bit like the Pomodoro method. Was that an inspiration? Did you try it and it didn't work? If so, why do you think that is?
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mesaframe 5y ago
Whatever the author mentions is part of meditation. But observing the mind requires concentration too otherwise it will wander away with thoughts. Anyway, if you feel connected with such kind of things then I'll heavily recommend to do meditation.
- godDLL 5y ago
  Concentration is a loaded word. It is not black and white, but feels like you're talking about a value that goes from zero to one possibly? How do you think about it? I came to think of it in terms of attention. In a model where your awareness of time, or of change is conditional on shifting your spotlight of attention it can be defined usefully, I think. So, in such a model your concentration is conditional on your paying attention to where your awareness is not pointed. To the interplay of things outside your spotlight of awareness. The processes that are you but outside of the seat of your awareness already have workable models for all of that. They have good guesses. Your sensory will enrich those guesses and flow them into your reality as givens. If you think of it like that there is a clear difference between paying attention to something, and expanding your perception of the present moment by concentration. Sometimes I hear people use the c-word to describe uninterrupted time dedicated to a task. That is to say focus. Exclusionary attention. How do you think about it?
  - mesaframe 5y ago
    Yes, concentration is attention. There are levels of concentration. With the final being Exclusive attention to the object. Again meditation goes more deeper into the model. If you are curious about it I'll suggest you to read the book. The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa.
    - godDLL 5y ago
      That's a new one, to me. Thanks!
_benj 5y ago
I loved the article! Over the years and after burning out I’ve learned observe my state of mind, but mostly for the distracted mode, and when I finding in it I’ll just stop whatever focus work I’m doing because very few good things come out during that mental mode, and a ton of frustration is built. The part that I haven’t been able to accomplish is a good use of the low filter mode. For me in this mode I have little to no brain power left, and thus anything that is not effort than a YouTube video is a chore. I’ve curated my YouTube so is not completely full of trash and have chosen things that I don’t feel like I just burned a few hours of my life… but still, I’m trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better. Again, good writing, thanks!
- pitched 5y ago
  I have trouble with this too! Lately, I’ve been trying to use podcasts instead of YouTube videos. Audio-only means I can also close my eyes and feel a bit more rested afterwards too!
  - Cxckers 5y ago
    I agree. You actively choose to listen to a certain podcast on a topic of interest but on Youtube, it is so easy to fall down the endless rabit hole of decreasing quality content and that doesn't feel like well spent low-filter time at all
- nottorp 5y ago
  > I’m trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better. How about some brainless exercise dosed so it's not very straining? Couple of pushups, base technique that you know well if you do a martial art etc.
  - criddell 5y ago
    I have a guitar beside my desk that I will pick up and run through some scales or something like that to distract me. Works great.
- dageshi 5y ago
polishdude20 5y ago
I've always thought of discipline as a sort of negotiation between the co trolling mind and the commanding mind. To succeed in accomplishing your goals, the commanding mind should learn how the controlling mind works. And that includes knowing what states the controlling mind is in.
awb 5y ago
In the same vein, here’s a fun illustrated guide to procrastination (and fixing it) by Tim Urban: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... And accompanying TED Talk: https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU
- reddit_clone 5y ago
  That is so true it is not even funny. But the essay(s) don't mention ADHD at all. Is that intentional ? May be some dopomine deprived people don't even have a choice other than to embrace the monkey :-(
  - serverlessmom 5y ago
    Over time I have definitely come to see my ADHD as a blessing and a curse. I feel really lucky that I responded so well to medication, though sometimes I still feel so scattered I lack total enjoyment with whatever projects I work on. So when I really need my monkey to to take the back seat for a while I can use medication.
  - spicymaki 5y ago
    I have been a life long procrastinator, but I did not link it to ADD until recently. When I started hearing more about ADD the symptoms matched up. In the past procrastination was identified only as a moral failing that could be fixed by identifying the correct process. Now it is looked at as a probable symptom of a disorder, which can be helped with behavioral therapy and/or medication.
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amriksohata 5y ago
And the best way to get yourself into a state of mind for self observation according to Hindu sages? Pranayam (yoga) or breathing and focussing
teekert 5y ago
Hmm, finally some tricks that I could actually see myself use! Especially the healthy intellectual “snacks”. I mean I can get stuck on HN for a long time, but to be honest I could also do a course that just requires me to listen and eat a (physical) snack or something. I'm still hoping that a some point this leads to a control over the states, but maybe I should give up that dream :) "I also made so many mistakes that the next day I often spent hours finding and fixing them." Reminds me of what Rocky says to Grace (in the Hail Mary Project): "Sleep first, humans turn stupid without sleep." It's better to recognize it and surrender to it.
- titanomachy 5y ago
  Step 1 (develop awareness) is hard. I did a long meditation retreat and it helped a lot, although it still takes a lot of effort to integrate that back into living.
- serverlessmom 5y ago
  A helpful link for "intellectual snacks" might be this one: https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll/ https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll/ . It was posted in another thread here on Hacker News and I've been enjoying the more general information because it helps keep me from becoming hyper focused on one subject and scrolling away the hours of the day.
agumonkey 5y ago
https://archive.is/AyTbf https://archive.is/AyTbf Doesn't display on my phone. Well done meta master.
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kache_ 5y ago
I disagree that programming isn't done well in robot mode. Lots of things like test coverage & braindead text editing doesn't require analytical thinking. Hell, analytical thinking is overrated. Just pick a direction and go!
- Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  For me a good brain dead programming task is to just review the filetrre, read the code. In the course of that I'll often feel prompted topve stuff around, edit comments, refactor Little things, and before I know it I'm back to doing tricky work.
- jakobgreenfeld 5y ago
  Agreed. There are definitely programming tasks that work really well in Robot mode.
  - deleted 5y ago
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- bitexploder 5y ago
  Cal Newport essentially calls this "Shallow" vs. "Deep" work and I think it is a more useful sorting practice of chores for me. I know I can intensely focus only so many hours in a day. The rest of my day is structured around that notion. That deep work, every day, is sacred. Shallow work happens around my scheduled, uninterrupted deep work blocks. Shallow work is everything else. While it is helpful to let the sub-conscious dictate what sort of work goes on to a degree, I have found you can also steer the ship in the direction you want with good habits. It takes some time and scheduling discipline, but ultimately it has allowed me to be more productive. Many programming tasks, refactorings, and documentation writings are shallow work. Much of planning and preparing for deep work is shallow work in programming. Learning how to optimize the deep focus time is really helpful. Grease the gears, prime the pump, etc. etc. There is wisdom in acknowledging a particular mental state and understanding it, but it is also wise to know how to guide your mind to the state you want when you can best use it based on your schedule and other factors. There is a lot of push and pull here, but discipline in habits will let you control the monkey mind, as the author calls it, in my experience. Though I think of my "me" as a monkey and the rest of it as an elephant to properly put it in scale (thanks Joscha Bach + Lex Fridman). The monkey tries its best to guide the elephant to the right place :)
ozzythecat 5y ago
> The goal is to have moments of clarity where you’re able to see “ah that’s what’s going on in my mind right now”. I think this is valuable advice, and it applies not only in this productivity context but in any day to day situation. I feel worked up, angry, disappointed with those around me in certain situations. Whereas 5 years ago, I might get worked up and complain about all of it to my manager, I’ve learned to recognize my own emotional state. I feel X because of Y reasons. In 30 minutes after I’ve had a snack or maybe just a glass of water, I’ll feel significantly better and will want to take back anything I say now. Not because I’m wrong or that what someone did or didn’t do is actually right, but because I need to control my emotion and how I respond. There’s a correct way to approach the problem.
- nojito 5y ago
  That's a concept called Flow researched heavily by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi I highly recommend checking out his works to get through these fluffy blog posts into what the actual research says. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W94FE6/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W94FE6/
  - tailspin2019 5y ago
    Not sure it's quite the same thing. I think it's closer to a state of mindfulness than flow. In a flow state you are, by definition, fully absorbed in an activity and are not necessarily very "self aware" in this kind of way.
    - pasquinelli 5y ago
      if i'm not mistaken, that total absorbtion would be referred to as one-act samadhi in a buddhist conception.
      - sAbakumoff 5y ago
        the total absorption could be referred to as one of dhyānas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism Experiencing dhyāna is possible without achieving samadhi, but it is very unstable Csikszentmihalyi flow state implies that one is involved in some activity, but in dhyānas you don't need to do anything.
kkoncevicius 5y ago
Finally, something new in this space that I haven't heard of or read before. Thank you for sharing.
cypherpunks01 5y ago
Understanding the Monkey Mind with Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche (Tibetan teacher and master of the Karma Kagyu and Nyingma lineages of Tibetan Buddhism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg
madmod 5y ago
This sounds like good advice but the writer clearly has a lot more flexibility in their schedule than the average person.
- titanomachy 5y ago
  The average childless software engineer who works from home has a fair bit of flexibility in how they use their time.
danhab99 5y ago
All I ever hear about this Zig is how much harder everything is. What's the point of Zig? What does it do better?
- all2 5y ago
  Uhhh, wrong thread? I think you might be meaning to be over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29965239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29965239
  - tandr 5y ago
    a bit meta: it is actually kind of funny how their questions are actually quite fitting into the discussions going here...
mwattsun 5y ago
This is great and also what I practice. I've tried to explain it to people with limited success, but I think you do a good job here. This type of awareness has a long tradition. Ancient Sanskrit scholars and Buddha discuss this, as well as Western philosophers. “An unexamined life is not worth living.” – Socrates https://www.civilsdaily.com/mains/an-unexamined-life-is-not-worth-living-socrates-what-does-this-quotation-mean-to-you-10-marks/ https://www.civilsdaily.com/mains/an-unexamined-life-is-not-... Mahatma Gandhi’s examination of self through his autobiography ‘My experiments with truth’ highlights the significance of reflection on life. Mahatma Gandhi was not only able to map his weaknesses and vulnerabilities through the examination but was also able to question his prejudices and understand his strength as a human being. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Finding_Fran/8CZr_HxkKscC?hl=en&gbpv=0 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Finding_Fran/8CZr_HxkKs... To both calm and stimulate the self, Gurdjieff devised two main practices: a series of movements and an exercise called "self-observation." Some of the movements draw from yoga and ancient Sufi dances and are strenuous, while others, more controlled, resemble tai chi. "Self-observation" involves focusing all one's awareness throughout the day on one's thoughts, emotions, facial expressions, and body movements. The goal is to figure out the drives, as well as the contradictions, between the mental centers, in order to pull them together into some sort of harmony. Then one is on the way to finding the elusive spiritual center in the self that remains uninfluenced by social conditioning. Osho Man lives like a robot: mechanically efficient, but with no awareness. Hence the whole problem! There are so many problems man has to face, but they are all by-products of his sleep. So the first thing to be understood is what this sleep consists in — because Zen is an effort to become alert and awake. Steve Jobs Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn't really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That's because they were able to connect experiences they've had and synthesize new things. And the reason they were able to do that was that they've had more experiences or they have thought more about their experiences than other people.
zackmorris 5y ago
I had an unusual experience this weekend while I was sick. After laying around for 2 days with brain fog, I woke up early Sunday morning and watched TV, checked social media, etc, but was sick of consuming information and had the strangest feeling that I wanted to work on something productive but my body aches wouldn't let me concentrate. I also felt like.. playing video games? I haven't had the urge to play video games since my first semester of college in 1995 before I discovered partying and dating. I was bored. It finally hit me that I haven't been bored in over 25 years. I've been hopeless, exhausted, overworked, financially destitute, depressed, burned out, lost in countless ways. But never bored. Now, I meditate often, I've learned a great deal about the higher self on neurodivergent TikTok, and I'm mindful of my contribution in service to others. But I can't really emphasize enough how much this shook me. I'm still processing it. I wonder if getting life goals done could be as simple as carving out large blocks of time where you aren't allowed to work on them. I don't mean filling the time with something else like work or other obligations. But literal you-time, with a rule that you can't exert yourself in any way or you'll risk relapsing into nonprogress. This is more like transmuting one form of attentive energy (negative) into another (positive) by dwelling on the opposite thing than you're used to. For example, I perceive every stoplight as being red. Since I started commuting a half hour to work a few days per week, I've been bringing coffee. Now I find that I never get a chance to drink it, because every light is green.
- abledon 5y ago
  you may like the youtube channel "HealthyGamerGG", its the intersection of gaming and meditation/psychology
- serverlessmom 5y ago
  Thank you for sharing your experience. I find that it mirrors my own in many ways. I especially relate to the idea that life goals are accomplished when we dedicate time to ourselves and are adapt to being more flexible with the patterns in which our minds move. I also have learned over time that through the use of caffeine, a beer, or having a smoke I can help shift my mind into other modes. The same goes with exercise and meditation or sitting down to take a break for five minutes and be mindful about where my mind is at and what I need to do for myself versus others.
jfarmer 5y ago
“The great thing, then, in all education, is to make our nervous system our ally instead of our enemy. It is to fund and capitalize our acquisitions, and live at ease upon the interest of the fund.” — William James, The Principles of Psychology (1890)
yummy_box 5y ago
Thanks OP, I feel like I have been doing what you describe without noticing , you articulated it pretty well. Thanks again, and good luck.
DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago
I enjoyed the article, but I disagree. Back in the day, the Getting Things Done book said to organise tasks by energy level. That does make things easier; however, easy to procrastinate by saying I'll do it later when I have energy. I have taken to the more disciplined, priortized approach pushed by the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger/Jocko Willink/David Goggins... the items that are a priorty or important get done first. Hammer through the first 2-4 hours, then you can have flexibility in the rest of the day. Even if you're not feeling it, go through the motions, make it a habit to make it easier.
- dasil003 5y ago
  I tend to think all of this is extremely personal and the system is mostly window-dressing. If you are able to focus on work which is engaging and useful (by whatever measure you choose) regularly, over time you will get good results. Different kinds of systems like habit-building, reminders or GTD can help; as can cutting yourself some slack and making room for inspiration to find you without obsessing over productivity. But ultimately you either do things you are proud of or not, and any system or reflection you put on top of amounts to rationalization. If that helps then more power to you, but don't lose sight of the actual work.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  > Even if you're not feeling it, go through the motions How? This is the whole problem; for many folks, this isn't helpful advice because the whole problem is that it's hard to do things if you're not "feeling" it.
  - DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago
    Jocko uses the example of writing a book (he's written fiction and non-fiction). It's a mental activity which is known for "writer's block". Jocko says go through the motion... sit down and write 1,000 words per day minimum. At least it's progress. When you have energy later, you have something to work with. You might need to re-write everything, but that still quicker than trying to write it perfect the first time. I think that's very applicable to coding.
raman162 5y ago
I think the most important advice in this article is "Be aware of your current mental state". This goes a long way with not just being productive but being aware of how to address any emotional state. The easiest way I've been able to do this is just to journal every-time I find myself going distracted.
- azundo 5y ago
  I'd go one step further and say that the article's value is also in pointing out that being aware takes practice, you can't just flip a switch and decide to start being aware of your current mental state. You need to pay attention many times to start to connect the dots and be able to recognize the state you're in and the best way to respond.
  - raman162 5y ago
    100% correct. It's definitely a skill that takes patience and awareness to develop (kinda ironic).
reactspa 5y ago
I had the same 50 tabs open on Chrome for about a year. Just articles and videos that I was supposed to skim. They were important enough that I couldn't close them without skimming. But for some reason, sitting at my home desk, I just couldn't skim them. Then I started going through them while laying in bed trying to get to sleep. Cleaned them out in 3 nights. Not sure if this is the same thing the author is talking about, but it's something.
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davidhyde 5y ago
> “ I use Telegram to take quick notes during the day by sending messages to myself. ” Beware that, unless explicitly setup, you are most likely also sending a copy to Telegram.
vemv 5y ago
As of lately I've found a useful insight in the opposite direction: getting 'in the zone' is never instantaneous. Just like many other activities (e.g. social, or sport), you can't go from 0 to 100 just like that. And that transition period sucks. Your brain was over-stimulated and now has to focus. It's crying like a child who's been deprived of his favorite toy. It sucks and there's no way around it. But: being aware of it is liberating! If you remain aware that starting work is painful, you won't be waiting for a later moment where it will magically become more enjoyable. Best of all, the hard first few minutes are just that, a few minutes. Maybe 10, which again are painful, because one is under-performing and mentally dispersed. If you are aware of the transient nature of this state, it will be less frustrating. Embrace the suck.
Scarblac 5y ago
The problem, for me, is to become aware that I'm procrastinating. Once I realise that, I can apply the kind of thinking as in the article, but sometimes hours of stupid Internet clicking have gone by by then. I find note taking on paper helps with that, if only because it's something I can make part of my routine without it being on a computer.
Gatsky 5y ago
Not sure about this. The productive people I have studied don’t do this. Instead they are very disciplined - in other words they train themselves and arrange their life so the mind is in the right mode at the right time.
MrDresden 5y ago
I consider myself highly meta aware (and recognise all of the modes the author mentions), but have not been good enough at guiding myself to perform the right action for each mode. I'll have to try his suggestions, seeing what works for me.
chanux 5y ago
You need to learn to observe what’s going on in your mind almost like a third-person observer. This is difficult and requires a lot of practice. Oh it requires patience. It also needs "vocabulary" to refer to things with, and a framework to help achieving it if you will. A while back, I randomly found some video from Jiddu Krishnamurthi. I was in the right mood so watched a few and at the end of it tried to actually observe my thoughts. I was only able to do it because the mind was sufficiently wound down and JK really helped. It was a bunch of videos and I have not taken note of it. But I had the following in a playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlkYPlS5s0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlkYPlS5s0 Hope that's the important one and it helps someone.
mr5iff 5y ago
"You need to learn to observe what’s going on in your mind almost like a third-person observer." This mindset reminds me of Vipassana. Observe your feelings (or "modes" as OP said), and avoid trying to force yourself to switch from one mode to another because it is unlikely to work.
fosstrack 5y ago
There are really two concepts that I have been trying hard to master: 1. As the OP, learning to recognize the state of your mind, and picking a task that's appropriate to it 2. Learn to enter and exit the desired state of mind at will. Like switching off the lights in one room, and entering another instantly. The latter is imho harder because it requires the metacognition from the former as well as discipline. But discipline itself is not sufficient. Need to build in sufficient downtime as well and fight the urge to be productive during that phase. Let it all sink in. This might be the hardest.

Terry Tao has a somewhat similar method https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/batch-low-intensity-tasks-together/ https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/batch-low-inten...

probotect0r 5y ago

I would recommend the book "Peak Mind" for those looking to get into meditation to improve their mental awareness and tame the monkey mind. It goes over some of the science and research behind how attention works (in simple terms) and outlines a clear meditation regime you can implement (just 12 minutes a day, 5 days a week).

Tim25659 5y ago

When I am stressed out monkey mind will get stronger and stronger I will be out of control..

godDLL 5y ago
I put my monkey in a cage. I went around and logged the things I happen to be doing in a spreadsheet for three weeks. Assuming those are mostly the things I'll be doing going forward I've categorized them into action-cards. Those have groupings by space (home, out, job) and time (night, noon, morning). One card is titled BURN. If you play that card you can do whatever for 25 minutes, but you can't play two in a row. I set a timer. Then I have to choose a card to play, from the things I actually do. Set a timer. When that's up choose a card again. There is a card called SLEEP, it has a checklist. Similarly EAT/COOK has both instructions and time limits. I ended up with more than 15 but less than 30 cards. And the single point of failure is in set-timer to choose card loop. This goes away after about 20 days where it becomes a habit. There was another point of failure, but now there is a CALLS card that is limited to two times a day, and the phone is otherwise offline. Battery life is 5x. Contentness is 1.0 Try it.
- fizzbar 5y ago
  thank you for sharing such a detailed and simple workflow!
- serverlessmom 5y ago
  This is a really interesting technique! I'm happy this is working so well for you. Would make an interesting app though I suppose that would put you back on your phone.
  - godDLL 5y ago
    Yeah, it would have to take over my phone excepting the two CALLS windows a day. Otherwise I'll find it very easy to BURN away. And the most noticeable thing it did to my well being is a drastic reduction in ambient anxiety and proclivity to negative emotion. It is like what SSRI are supposed to be, but for real.
    - serverlessmom 5y ago
      A reduction in overall ambient anxiety is definitely a worthy goal for anyone. Do you feel like this might be partially due to the fact that being on your phone less gave you less access over all time to be exposed to the news?
      - godDLL 5y ago
        No, that would be old news. I was never, ever the guy to pick up my phone aimlessly. It was always to a) swipe away the bullshit, and b) do the important thing. I don't think I am in any way affected by the dopey loops the news pull on you. In fact, I check out news when I overhear something or when there is no development for weeks on an issue that directly affects me. Never otherwise. I don't own a TV since 1999 at least.
- brimble 5y ago
  At first I was like "but with those rules you could play BURN every other card, and that's not good" then I realized that if I'd only wasted half of an average waking day for the last couple decades, I'd probably be god-emperor of humanity. This does seem quite a bit like the Pomodoro method. Was that an inspiration? Did you try it and it didn't work? If so, why do you think that is?

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mesaframe 5y ago

Whatever the author mentions is part of meditation. But observing the mind requires concentration too otherwise it will wander away with thoughts. Anyway, if you feel connected with such kind of things then I'll heavily recommend to do meditation.

godDLL 5y ago
Concentration is a loaded word. It is not black and white, but feels like you're talking about a value that goes from zero to one possibly? How do you think about it? I came to think of it in terms of attention. In a model where your awareness of time, or of change is conditional on shifting your spotlight of attention it can be defined usefully, I think. So, in such a model your concentration is conditional on your paying attention to where your awareness is not pointed. To the interplay of things outside your spotlight of awareness. The processes that are you but outside of the seat of your awareness already have workable models for all of that. They have good guesses. Your sensory will enrich those guesses and flow them into your reality as givens. If you think of it like that there is a clear difference between paying attention to something, and expanding your perception of the present moment by concentration. Sometimes I hear people use the c-word to describe uninterrupted time dedicated to a task. That is to say focus. Exclusionary attention. How do you think about it?
- mesaframe 5y ago
  Yes, concentration is attention. There are levels of concentration. With the final being Exclusive attention to the object. Again meditation goes more deeper into the model. If you are curious about it I'll suggest you to read the book. The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa.
  - godDLL 5y ago
    That's a new one, to me. Thanks!

_benj 5y ago

I loved the article! Over the years and after burning out I’ve learned observe my state of mind, but mostly for the distracted mode, and when I finding in it I’ll just stop whatever focus work I’m doing because very few good things come out during that mental mode, and a ton of frustration is built. The part that I haven’t been able to accomplish is a good use of the low filter mode. For me in this mode I have little to no brain power left, and thus anything that is not effort than a YouTube video is a chore. I’ve curated my YouTube so is not completely full of trash and have chosen things that I don’t feel like I just burned a few hours of my life… but still, I’m trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better. Again, good writing, thanks!

pitched 5y ago
I have trouble with this too! Lately, I’ve been trying to use podcasts instead of YouTube videos. Audio-only means I can also close my eyes and feel a bit more rested afterwards too!
- Cxckers 5y ago
  I agree. You actively choose to listen to a certain podcast on a topic of interest but on Youtube, it is so easy to fall down the endless rabit hole of decreasing quality content and that doesn't feel like well spent low-filter time at all
nottorp 5y ago
> I’m trying to figure out how to use low filter mode better. How about some brainless exercise dosed so it's not very straining? Couple of pushups, base technique that you know well if you do a martial art etc.
- criddell 5y ago
  I have a guitar beside my desk that I will pick up and run through some scales or something like that to distract me. Works great.
dageshi 5y ago

polishdude20 5y ago

I've always thought of discipline as a sort of negotiation between the co trolling mind and the commanding mind. To succeed in accomplishing your goals, the commanding mind should learn how the controlling mind works. And that includes knowing what states the controlling mind is in.

awb 5y ago

In the same vein, here’s a fun illustrated guide to procrastination (and fixing it) by Tim Urban: https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrasti... And accompanying TED Talk: https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU https://youtu.be/arj7oStGLkU

reddit_clone 5y ago
That is so true it is not even funny. But the essay(s) don't mention ADHD at all. Is that intentional ? May be some dopomine deprived people don't even have a choice other than to embrace the monkey :-(
- serverlessmom 5y ago
  Over time I have definitely come to see my ADHD as a blessing and a curse. I feel really lucky that I responded so well to medication, though sometimes I still feel so scattered I lack total enjoyment with whatever projects I work on. So when I really need my monkey to to take the back seat for a while I can use medication.
- spicymaki 5y ago
  I have been a life long procrastinator, but I did not link it to ADD until recently. When I started hearing more about ADD the symptoms matched up. In the past procrastination was identified only as a moral failing that could be fixed by identifying the correct process. Now it is looked at as a probable symptom of a disorder, which can be helped with behavioral therapy and/or medication.

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amriksohata 5y ago

And the best way to get yourself into a state of mind for self observation according to Hindu sages? Pranayam (yoga) or breathing and focussing

teekert 5y ago

Hmm, finally some tricks that I could actually see myself use! Especially the healthy intellectual “snacks”. I mean I can get stuck on HN for a long time, but to be honest I could also do a course that just requires me to listen and eat a (physical) snack or something. I'm still hoping that a some point this leads to a control over the states, but maybe I should give up that dream :) "I also made so many mistakes that the next day I often spent hours finding and fixing them." Reminds me of what Rocky says to Grace (in the Hail Mary Project): "Sleep first, humans turn stupid without sleep." It's better to recognize it and surrender to it.

titanomachy 5y ago
Step 1 (develop awareness) is hard. I did a long meditation retreat and it helped a lot, although it still takes a lot of effort to integrate that back into living.
serverlessmom 5y ago
A helpful link for "intellectual snacks" might be this one: https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll/ https://retrohacker.github.io/wikiscroll/ . It was posted in another thread here on Hacker News and I've been enjoying the more general information because it helps keep me from becoming hyper focused on one subject and scrolling away the hours of the day.

agumonkey 5y ago

https://archive.is/AyTbf https://archive.is/AyTbf Doesn't display on my phone. Well done meta master.

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kache_ 5y ago

I disagree that programming isn't done well in robot mode. Lots of things like test coverage & braindead text editing doesn't require analytical thinking. Hell, analytical thinking is overrated. Just pick a direction and go!

Jeff_Brown 5y ago
For me a good brain dead programming task is to just review the filetrre, read the code. In the course of that I'll often feel prompted topve stuff around, edit comments, refactor Little things, and before I know it I'm back to doing tricky work.
jakobgreenfeld 5y ago
Agreed. There are definitely programming tasks that work really well in Robot mode.
- deleted 5y ago
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bitexploder 5y ago
Cal Newport essentially calls this "Shallow" vs. "Deep" work and I think it is a more useful sorting practice of chores for me. I know I can intensely focus only so many hours in a day. The rest of my day is structured around that notion. That deep work, every day, is sacred. Shallow work happens around my scheduled, uninterrupted deep work blocks. Shallow work is everything else. While it is helpful to let the sub-conscious dictate what sort of work goes on to a degree, I have found you can also steer the ship in the direction you want with good habits. It takes some time and scheduling discipline, but ultimately it has allowed me to be more productive. Many programming tasks, refactorings, and documentation writings are shallow work. Much of planning and preparing for deep work is shallow work in programming. Learning how to optimize the deep focus time is really helpful. Grease the gears, prime the pump, etc. etc. There is wisdom in acknowledging a particular mental state and understanding it, but it is also wise to know how to guide your mind to the state you want when you can best use it based on your schedule and other factors. There is a lot of push and pull here, but discipline in habits will let you control the monkey mind, as the author calls it, in my experience. Though I think of my "me" as a monkey and the rest of it as an elephant to properly put it in scale (thanks Joscha Bach + Lex Fridman). The monkey tries its best to guide the elephant to the right place :)

ozzythecat 5y ago

> The goal is to have moments of clarity where you’re able to see “ah that’s what’s going on in my mind right now”. I think this is valuable advice, and it applies not only in this productivity context but in any day to day situation. I feel worked up, angry, disappointed with those around me in certain situations. Whereas 5 years ago, I might get worked up and complain about all of it to my manager, I’ve learned to recognize my own emotional state. I feel X because of Y reasons. In 30 minutes after I’ve had a snack or maybe just a glass of water, I’ll feel significantly better and will want to take back anything I say now. Not because I’m wrong or that what someone did or didn’t do is actually right, but because I need to control my emotion and how I respond. There’s a correct way to approach the problem.

nojito 5y ago
That's a concept called Flow researched heavily by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi I highly recommend checking out his works to get through these fluffy blog posts into what the actual research says. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W94FE6/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W94FE6/
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  Not sure it's quite the same thing. I think it's closer to a state of mindfulness than flow. In a flow state you are, by definition, fully absorbed in an activity and are not necessarily very "self aware" in this kind of way.
  - pasquinelli 5y ago
    if i'm not mistaken, that total absorbtion would be referred to as one-act samadhi in a buddhist conception.
    - sAbakumoff 5y ago
      the total absorption could be referred to as one of dhyānas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism Experiencing dhyāna is possible without achieving samadhi, but it is very unstable Csikszentmihalyi flow state implies that one is involved in some activity, but in dhyānas you don't need to do anything.

kkoncevicius 5y ago

Finally, something new in this space that I haven't heard of or read before. Thank you for sharing.

cypherpunks01 5y ago

Understanding the Monkey Mind with Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche (Tibetan teacher and master of the Karma Kagyu and Nyingma lineages of Tibetan Buddhism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg

madmod 5y ago

This sounds like good advice but the writer clearly has a lot more flexibility in their schedule than the average person.

titanomachy 5y ago
The average childless software engineer who works from home has a fair bit of flexibility in how they use their time.

danhab99 5y ago

All I ever hear about this Zig is how much harder everything is. What's the point of Zig? What does it do better?

all2 5y ago
Uhhh, wrong thread? I think you might be meaning to be over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29965239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29965239
- tandr 5y ago
  a bit meta: it is actually kind of funny how their questions are actually quite fitting into the discussions going here...

mwattsun 5y ago

This is great and also what I practice. I've tried to explain it to people with limited success, but I think you do a good job here. This type of awareness has a long tradition. Ancient Sanskrit scholars and Buddha discuss this, as well as Western philosophers. “An unexamined life is not worth living.” – Socrates https://www.civilsdaily.com/mains/an-unexamined-life-is-not-worth-living-socrates-what-does-this-quotation-mean-to-you-10-marks/ https://www.civilsdaily.com/mains/an-unexamined-life-is-not-... Mahatma Gandhi’s examination of self through his autobiography ‘My experiments with truth’ highlights the significance of reflection on life. Mahatma Gandhi was not only able to map his weaknesses and vulnerabilities through the examination but was also able to question his prejudices and understand his strength as a human being. https://www.google.com/books/edition/Finding_Fran/8CZr_HxkKscC?hl=en&gbpv=0 https://www.google.com/books/edition/Finding_Fran/8CZr_HxkKs... To both calm and stimulate the self, Gurdjieff devised two main practices: a series of movements and an exercise called "self-observation." Some of the movements draw from yoga and ancient Sufi dances and are strenuous, while others, more controlled, resemble tai chi. "Self-observation" involves focusing all one's awareness throughout the day on one's thoughts, emotions, facial expressions, and body movements. The goal is to figure out the drives, as well as the contradictions, between the mental centers, in order to pull them together into some sort of harmony. Then one is on the way to finding the elusive spiritual center in the self that remains uninfluenced by social conditioning. Osho Man lives like a robot: mechanically efficient, but with no awareness. Hence the whole problem! There are so many problems man has to face, but they are all by-products of his sleep. So the first thing to be understood is what this sleep consists in — because Zen is an effort to become alert and awake. Steve Jobs Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn't really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That's because they were able to connect experiences they've had and synthesize new things. And the reason they were able to do that was that they've had more experiences or they have thought more about their experiences than other people.

zackmorris 5y ago

I had an unusual experience this weekend while I was sick. After laying around for 2 days with brain fog, I woke up early Sunday morning and watched TV, checked social media, etc, but was sick of consuming information and had the strangest feeling that I wanted to work on something productive but my body aches wouldn't let me concentrate. I also felt like.. playing video games? I haven't had the urge to play video games since my first semester of college in 1995 before I discovered partying and dating. I was bored. It finally hit me that I haven't been bored in over 25 years. I've been hopeless, exhausted, overworked, financially destitute, depressed, burned out, lost in countless ways. But never bored. Now, I meditate often, I've learned a great deal about the higher self on neurodivergent TikTok, and I'm mindful of my contribution in service to others. But I can't really emphasize enough how much this shook me. I'm still processing it. I wonder if getting life goals done could be as simple as carving out large blocks of time where you aren't allowed to work on them. I don't mean filling the time with something else like work or other obligations. But literal you-time, with a rule that you can't exert yourself in any way or you'll risk relapsing into nonprogress. This is more like transmuting one form of attentive energy (negative) into another (positive) by dwelling on the opposite thing than you're used to. For example, I perceive every stoplight as being red. Since I started commuting a half hour to work a few days per week, I've been bringing coffee. Now I find that I never get a chance to drink it, because every light is green.

abledon 5y ago
you may like the youtube channel "HealthyGamerGG", its the intersection of gaming and meditation/psychology
serverlessmom 5y ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. I find that it mirrors my own in many ways. I especially relate to the idea that life goals are accomplished when we dedicate time to ourselves and are adapt to being more flexible with the patterns in which our minds move. I also have learned over time that through the use of caffeine, a beer, or having a smoke I can help shift my mind into other modes. The same goes with exercise and meditation or sitting down to take a break for five minutes and be mindful about where my mind is at and what I need to do for myself versus others.

jfarmer 5y ago

“The great thing, then, in all education, is to make our nervous system our ally instead of our enemy. It is to fund and capitalize our acquisitions, and live at ease upon the interest of the fund.” — William James, The Principles of Psychology (1890)

yummy_box 5y ago

Thanks OP, I feel like I have been doing what you describe without noticing , you articulated it pretty well. Thanks again, and good luck.

DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago

I enjoyed the article, but I disagree. Back in the day, the Getting Things Done book said to organise tasks by energy level. That does make things easier; however, easy to procrastinate by saying I'll do it later when I have energy. I have taken to the more disciplined, priortized approach pushed by the likes of Arnold Schwarzenegger/Jocko Willink/David Goggins... the items that are a priorty or important get done first. Hammer through the first 2-4 hours, then you can have flexibility in the rest of the day. Even if you're not feeling it, go through the motions, make it a habit to make it easier.

dasil003 5y ago
I tend to think all of this is extremely personal and the system is mostly window-dressing. If you are able to focus on work which is engaging and useful (by whatever measure you choose) regularly, over time you will get good results. Different kinds of systems like habit-building, reminders or GTD can help; as can cutting yourself some slack and making room for inspiration to find you without obsessing over productivity. But ultimately you either do things you are proud of or not, and any system or reflection you put on top of amounts to rationalization. If that helps then more power to you, but don't lose sight of the actual work.
TameAntelope 5y ago
> Even if you're not feeling it, go through the motions How? This is the whole problem; for many folks, this isn't helpful advice because the whole problem is that it's hard to do things if you're not "feeling" it.
- DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago
  Jocko uses the example of writing a book (he's written fiction and non-fiction). It's a mental activity which is known for "writer's block". Jocko says go through the motion... sit down and write 1,000 words per day minimum. At least it's progress. When you have energy later, you have something to work with. You might need to re-write everything, but that still quicker than trying to write it perfect the first time. I think that's very applicable to coding.

raman162 5y ago

I think the most important advice in this article is "Be aware of your current mental state". This goes a long way with not just being productive but being aware of how to address any emotional state. The easiest way I've been able to do this is just to journal every-time I find myself going distracted.

azundo 5y ago
I'd go one step further and say that the article's value is also in pointing out that being aware takes practice, you can't just flip a switch and decide to start being aware of your current mental state. You need to pay attention many times to start to connect the dots and be able to recognize the state you're in and the best way to respond.
- raman162 5y ago
  100% correct. It's definitely a skill that takes patience and awareness to develop (kinda ironic).

reactspa 5y ago

I had the same 50 tabs open on Chrome for about a year. Just articles and videos that I was supposed to skim. They were important enough that I couldn't close them without skimming. But for some reason, sitting at my home desk, I just couldn't skim them. Then I started going through them while laying in bed trying to get to sleep. Cleaned them out in 3 nights. Not sure if this is the same thing the author is talking about, but it's something.

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davidhyde 5y ago

> “ I use Telegram to take quick notes during the day by sending messages to myself. ” Beware that, unless explicitly setup, you are most likely also sending a copy to Telegram.

vemv 5y ago

As of lately I've found a useful insight in the opposite direction: getting 'in the zone' is never instantaneous. Just like many other activities (e.g. social, or sport), you can't go from 0 to 100 just like that. And that transition period sucks. Your brain was over-stimulated and now has to focus. It's crying like a child who's been deprived of his favorite toy. It sucks and there's no way around it. But: being aware of it is liberating! If you remain aware that starting work is painful, you won't be waiting for a later moment where it will magically become more enjoyable. Best of all, the hard first few minutes are just that, a few minutes. Maybe 10, which again are painful, because one is under-performing and mentally dispersed. If you are aware of the transient nature of this state, it will be less frustrating. Embrace the suck.

Scarblac 5y ago

The problem, for me, is to become aware that I'm procrastinating. Once I realise that, I can apply the kind of thinking as in the article, but sometimes hours of stupid Internet clicking have gone by by then. I find note taking on paper helps with that, if only because it's something I can make part of my routine without it being on a computer.

Gatsky 5y ago

Not sure about this. The productive people I have studied don’t do this. Instead they are very disciplined - in other words they train themselves and arrange their life so the mind is in the right mode at the right time.

MrDresden 5y ago

I consider myself highly meta aware (and recognise all of the modes the author mentions), but have not been good enough at guiding myself to perform the right action for each mode. I'll have to try his suggestions, seeing what works for me.

chanux 5y ago

You need to learn to observe what’s going on in your mind almost like a third-person observer. This is difficult and requires a lot of practice. Oh it requires patience. It also needs "vocabulary" to refer to things with, and a framework to help achieving it if you will. A while back, I randomly found some video from Jiddu Krishnamurthi. I was in the right mood so watched a few and at the end of it tried to actually observe my thoughts. I was only able to do it because the mind was sufficiently wound down and JK really helped. It was a bunch of videos and I have not taken note of it. But I had the following in a playlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlkYPlS5s0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZlkYPlS5s0 Hope that's the important one and it helps someone.

mr5iff 5y ago

"You need to learn to observe what’s going on in your mind almost like a third-person observer." This mindset reminds me of Vipassana. Observe your feelings (or "modes" as OP said), and avoid trying to force yourself to switch from one mode to another because it is unlikely to work.

fosstrack 5y ago

There are really two concepts that I have been trying hard to master: 1. As the OP, learning to recognize the state of your mind, and picking a task that's appropriate to it 2. Learn to enter and exit the desired state of mind at will. Like switching off the lights in one room, and entering another instantly. The latter is imho harder because it requires the metacognition from the former as well as discipline. But discipline itself is not sufficient. Need to build in sufficient downtime as well and fight the urge to be productive during that phase. Let it all sink in. This might be the hardest.