7 ms·

Getting Started with Lockpicking

112 points by zdw 5y ago

Claude_Shannon 5y ago
I wanted to pick that as a hobby after binging on LPL. Unfortunately, even owning lockpicking tools in my country is a crime according to the law :(
- 1cvmask 5y ago
  Which country is that? Japan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking
  - masklinn 5y ago
    Per the link, it’s also a misdemeanour in poland, and illegal in england unless you’re in your own home.
    - szszrk 5y ago
      Correct, in Poland formally even owning lock-picking tools is illegal when you are not a certified locksmith. Which is a bit funny because buying those on Aliexpress and similar sites is very popular. Recent law changes make it illegal to own an ammunition shell. I have had one huge artillery shell as an umbrella holder at home, hope my parents got rid of it.
  - Claude_Shannon 5y ago
    Poland
Animats 5y ago
It's entertaining watching the Lock Picking Lawyer's videos. He's very good. And far too many locks are embarrassingly bad. Lockpicking ought to be exponentially hard. You should have to try all the pin position combinations. Something like 5^6 for a 6-pin cylinder. But is in practice, it's not much worse than linear. You can tell when you're making forward progress. That's considered a total fail in a cryptographic system, but is accepted in the keyed lock industry. The guy with the Stuff Made Here videos did make a lock that is not supposed to let you know if you're making progress. That makes picking exponentially hard again. The info the key provides is recorded mechanically, and then, as you turn the key, that info is later tested with the cylinder in a position that blocks access to the mechanism. That isolation between "read key" and "test key data" is what makes it work. He has an elegant, reasonably compact design, although it turned out to have other vulnerabilities. If you were willing to have a big box of a lock inside or behind the door, like many 19th century and earlier locks, this would be much easier to build. As locks wear, they become easier and easier to pick. Heavily worn pin-tumbler locks can be opened by almost anything that randomly moves the pins up and down while you apply some tension. Rakes, vibrators, etc. Many electronic locks are vulnerable due to putting the electronics that makes the decision to open on the outside, where it can be tampered with. You'd think the outside would just have a keypad or sensor, with all the good stuff behind the door, but all too often, no. Also, most electronic locks come with a mechanical backup lock, usually one that's not very good.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- hvidgaard 5y ago
  For the majority of applications, locks are for "keeping honest people honest". With the right tools most locks take seconds to circumvent, think breaking a window, cutting the steel, drilling out the lock. For situations where it actually matters, professionals know to secure elsewhere before the actual lock is considered.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    I mean, ideally you have a breaking break-in so that you have evidence for the insurance that you have, in fact, been broken into. Best to have a lock that is easier to break than to pick IMO. But yeah, the base premise is that it should avoid crimes of opportunity. Like the steel cables to lock laptops and screens to tables; they won't stand up for a pair of sturdy snips, but they can't be snatched up quickly.
    - buran77 5y ago
      For people willing to commit insurance fraud putting a few scratches on the lock and door to make it look legit isn't really that much of an effort. Are insurance companies actually conditioning their conclusion based on this kind of evidence? The real value of a lock that's hard to pick is that it forces the burglar to carry more tools and use noisier, time consuming methods. All of this makes the break-in far more obvious and detectable much faster by neighbors, or anyone really, even the owner. And you want to make the job harder and riskier for the burglar so the bar is higher for how willing they must be to go through with the job. Most burglaries are "blind" ones, meaning the burglars have a reasonably good idea of the job's value and difficulty level. So if you have a lot of valuables you have to do your darnedest to raise the job's difficulty: make the break in take time, be noisy, and generally draw attention, or forcing the robbers to leave a lot of evidence behind.
      - hvidgaard 5y ago
kweks 5y ago
Great post and resources. I'd personally found that picking never stuck: Something between understanding the fundamentals and individual pin picking that my brain refuses to handle. With that said, I discovered impressioning, which I find infinitely more tactile, interesting and exciting. As you say, there's almost infinite space for evolution. For next steps, I'd highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-Lockpicking-Professionals/dp/B09FNW8YSH https://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-Lockpicking-Profess... It's written by a friend who teaches picking to hobbyists, locksmiths and LEA. If you're in Europe, we also just launched https://lock401.com https://lock401.com - highly curated collections of lockpicking tools.
chmaynard 5y ago
As I see it, the real purpose of locks is not to prevent theft or entry but to keep people honest by introducing some friction.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- szszrk 5y ago
  A string with a knot and "do not enter" sign also provide some friction. I don't see it as a justification for modern, widely-sold locks to be that poor. People buy these believing it's actual physical protection, yet it's usually not.
jedberg 5y ago
I learned lock picking at Defcon in the lock pick arena. They had tools, clear locks, and locks with 1 pin, 2 pins, etc. all the way to 6 pins. And of course you could buy a set of picks right there, and just hope the TSA didn't find them on the way home. These are the kinds of things I miss now that conferences have gone virtual for now. I hope they return to in person when safe, or at least a hybrid model going forward.
- louismerlin 5y ago
  I had that exact experience in 2021 at DEF CON, I was attending the physical part of their hybrid format and it was quite awesome and felt relatively safe.
123pie123 5y ago
for those people in the UK, snapping the lock is suposedly the most common way of burglars getting through doors. This involves (as the name implies) just twisting the lock if it sticks out or using a blow tourch to melt the handle or just snapping the handle off, to a get purchase on the lock see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqHryHXSj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqHryHXSj8 btw LockpickingLawer did a review of imho of one of the better locks to protect against this and is reasonably pick proof (he had no negative comments!!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOakyPgrpyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOakyPgrpyw. Which is the lock I have (I'm not affiliated in any way)
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I mean, while traumatizing and probably not covering the cost of stolen goods, at least there'll be enough evidence for the insurance to cough up.
- zikzak 5y ago
  When I was a kid, people would bring a hammer a screwdriver or wrench to a set of lockers. One guy moves down the line sticking the metal bar through the lock and smashing it with the hammer to pop the lock open, the rest of the guys clean out the lockers, then everyone runs (they would abandon the tools which were probably also stolen). Not sure what they would actually get away with but things like Sony Walkmans and other valuables (e.g. expensive coats) would be stolen all the time.
  - 123pie123 5y ago
    reminds me of when I/we lost all the keys to the panel locks on a server frame. My collegue was asking how do we get new keys, I then showed him the easy way and put a large long flat screwdriver in to the lock, another screwdriver through the hole in the handle and turned it effortlessly. twisting the whole lock and opening it he learnt that there was no real security there
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
i've been told that locks are for the "honest people so that their conscience does not wander" while a determined robber does not care about your defences
geomark 5y ago
Somehow my 11 year old got interested in lockpicking (maybe happened upon LPL?). So I got him a kit consisting of a clear-bodied lock and picking tools. He had mastered it within a couple of hours. Then he taught me. And since them we've picked every pad lock and door lock in our house. The biggest and meanest looking ones turned out to be all bluff and the easiest to pick. I hadn't thought that it might be illegal where I live. Maybe better check.
- bool3max 5y ago
  Illegal to pick your own locks? Huh?
  - detaro 5y ago
    The article links a handy explanation of the legal issues.
  - geomark 5y ago
    Not sure, but owning lock picking tools might be illegal. But as I have since learned, many locks are easy to pick with a paper clip.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
swayvil 5y ago
Speaking as a guy who used to break into stuff for fun and exploration, lockpicking is a primary skill and the #1 best way to get through doors. Used it a hundred times. Only busted a door once, but that was a special situation. Tension wrench and triangle rake. Works 80% of the time. And if that fails there's usually more doors to try.
jweather 5y ago
I've enjoyed learning, inspired by DeviantOllam and LPL. The clear practice locks are amazing for getting you used to the process. I haven't managed to pick anything that isn't see-through yet, but I enjoy trying. The highlight of my "career" though was when an escape room we played had an optional lockpicking challenge. It turned out to just be a clear practice lock which I got through it with no trouble, and then proceeded to pick a pair of handcuffs that apparently I wasn't supposed to pick. I had never tried before, but it really was as easy as it looks on TV. (they gave me a lockpick but apparently I'm not supposed to use it? there was an actual handcuff key inside one of the other locked boxes)

112 points by zdw 5y ago

I wanted to pick that as a hobby after binging on LPL. Unfortunately, even owning lockpicking tools in my country is a crime according to the law :(

1cvmask 5y ago
Which country is that? Japan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_picking
- masklinn 5y ago
  Per the link, it’s also a misdemeanour in poland, and illegal in england unless you’re in your own home.
  - szszrk 5y ago
    Correct, in Poland formally even owning lock-picking tools is illegal when you are not a certified locksmith. Which is a bit funny because buying those on Aliexpress and similar sites is very popular. Recent law changes make it illegal to own an ammunition shell. I have had one huge artillery shell as an umbrella holder at home, hope my parents got rid of it.
- Claude_Shannon 5y ago
  Poland

Animats 5y ago

It's entertaining watching the Lock Picking Lawyer's videos. He's very good. And far too many locks are embarrassingly bad. Lockpicking ought to be exponentially hard. You should have to try all the pin position combinations. Something like 5^6 for a 6-pin cylinder. But is in practice, it's not much worse than linear. You can tell when you're making forward progress. That's considered a total fail in a cryptographic system, but is accepted in the keyed lock industry. The guy with the Stuff Made Here videos did make a lock that is not supposed to let you know if you're making progress. That makes picking exponentially hard again. The info the key provides is recorded mechanically, and then, as you turn the key, that info is later tested with the cylinder in a position that blocks access to the mechanism. That isolation between "read key" and "test key data" is what makes it work. He has an elegant, reasonably compact design, although it turned out to have other vulnerabilities. If you were willing to have a big box of a lock inside or behind the door, like many 19th century and earlier locks, this would be much easier to build. As locks wear, they become easier and easier to pick. Heavily worn pin-tumbler locks can be opened by almost anything that randomly moves the pins up and down while you apply some tension. Rakes, vibrators, etc. Many electronic locks are vulnerable due to putting the electronics that makes the decision to open on the outside, where it can be tampered with. You'd think the outside would just have a keypad or sensor, with all the good stuff behind the door, but all too often, no. Also, most electronic locks come with a mechanical backup lock, usually one that's not very good.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hvidgaard 5y ago
For the majority of applications, locks are for "keeping honest people honest". With the right tools most locks take seconds to circumvent, think breaking a window, cutting the steel, drilling out the lock. For situations where it actually matters, professionals know to secure elsewhere before the actual lock is considered.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I mean, ideally you have a breaking break-in so that you have evidence for the insurance that you have, in fact, been broken into. Best to have a lock that is easier to break than to pick IMO. But yeah, the base premise is that it should avoid crimes of opportunity. Like the steel cables to lock laptops and screens to tables; they won't stand up for a pair of sturdy snips, but they can't be snatched up quickly.
  - buran77 5y ago
    For people willing to commit insurance fraud putting a few scratches on the lock and door to make it look legit isn't really that much of an effort. Are insurance companies actually conditioning their conclusion based on this kind of evidence? The real value of a lock that's hard to pick is that it forces the burglar to carry more tools and use noisier, time consuming methods. All of this makes the break-in far more obvious and detectable much faster by neighbors, or anyone really, even the owner. And you want to make the job harder and riskier for the burglar so the bar is higher for how willing they must be to go through with the job. Most burglaries are "blind" ones, meaning the burglars have a reasonably good idea of the job's value and difficulty level. So if you have a lot of valuables you have to do your darnedest to raise the job's difficulty: make the break in take time, be noisy, and generally draw attention, or forcing the robbers to leave a lot of evidence behind.
    - hvidgaard 5y ago

kweks 5y ago

Great post and resources. I'd personally found that picking never stuck: Something between understanding the fundamentals and individual pin picking that my brain refuses to handle. With that said, I discovered impressioning, which I find infinitely more tactile, interesting and exciting. As you say, there's almost infinite space for evolution. For next steps, I'd highly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-Lockpicking-Professionals/dp/B09FNW8YSH https://www.amazon.com/Little-Black-Book-Lockpicking-Profess... It's written by a friend who teaches picking to hobbyists, locksmiths and LEA. If you're in Europe, we also just launched https://lock401.com https://lock401.com - highly curated collections of lockpicking tools.

chmaynard 5y ago

As I see it, the real purpose of locks is not to prevent theft or entry but to keep people honest by introducing some friction.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
szszrk 5y ago
A string with a knot and "do not enter" sign also provide some friction. I don't see it as a justification for modern, widely-sold locks to be that poor. People buy these believing it's actual physical protection, yet it's usually not.

jedberg 5y ago

I learned lock picking at Defcon in the lock pick arena. They had tools, clear locks, and locks with 1 pin, 2 pins, etc. all the way to 6 pins. And of course you could buy a set of picks right there, and just hope the TSA didn't find them on the way home. These are the kinds of things I miss now that conferences have gone virtual for now. I hope they return to in person when safe, or at least a hybrid model going forward.

louismerlin 5y ago
I had that exact experience in 2021 at DEF CON, I was attending the physical part of their hybrid format and it was quite awesome and felt relatively safe.

123pie123 5y ago

for those people in the UK, snapping the lock is suposedly the most common way of burglars getting through doors. This involves (as the name implies) just twisting the lock if it sticks out or using a blow tourch to melt the handle or just snapping the handle off, to a get purchase on the lock see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqHryHXSj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqHryHXSj8 btw LockpickingLawer did a review of imho of one of the better locks to protect against this and is reasonably pick proof (he had no negative comments!!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOakyPgrpyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOakyPgrpyw. Which is the lock I have (I'm not affiliated in any way)

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I mean, while traumatizing and probably not covering the cost of stolen goods, at least there'll be enough evidence for the insurance to cough up.
zikzak 5y ago
When I was a kid, people would bring a hammer a screwdriver or wrench to a set of lockers. One guy moves down the line sticking the metal bar through the lock and smashing it with the hammer to pop the lock open, the rest of the guys clean out the lockers, then everyone runs (they would abandon the tools which were probably also stolen). Not sure what they would actually get away with but things like Sony Walkmans and other valuables (e.g. expensive coats) would be stolen all the time.
- 123pie123 5y ago
  reminds me of when I/we lost all the keys to the panel locks on a server frame. My collegue was asking how do we get new keys, I then showed him the easy way and put a large long flat screwdriver in to the lock, another screwdriver through the hole in the handle and turned it effortlessly. twisting the whole lock and opening it he learnt that there was no real security there

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

i've been told that locks are for the "honest people so that their conscience does not wander" while a determined robber does not care about your defences

geomark 5y ago

Somehow my 11 year old got interested in lockpicking (maybe happened upon LPL?). So I got him a kit consisting of a clear-bodied lock and picking tools. He had mastered it within a couple of hours. Then he taught me. And since them we've picked every pad lock and door lock in our house. The biggest and meanest looking ones turned out to be all bluff and the easiest to pick. I hadn't thought that it might be illegal where I live. Maybe better check.

bool3max 5y ago
Illegal to pick your own locks? Huh?
- detaro 5y ago
  The article links a handy explanation of the legal issues.
- geomark 5y ago
  Not sure, but owning lock picking tools might be illegal. But as I have since learned, many locks are easy to pick with a paper clip.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

swayvil 5y ago

Speaking as a guy who used to break into stuff for fun and exploration, lockpicking is a primary skill and the #1 best way to get through doors. Used it a hundred times. Only busted a door once, but that was a special situation. Tension wrench and triangle rake. Works 80% of the time. And if that fails there's usually more doors to try.

jweather 5y ago

I've enjoyed learning, inspired by DeviantOllam and LPL. The clear practice locks are amazing for getting you used to the process. I haven't managed to pick anything that isn't see-through yet, but I enjoy trying. The highlight of my "career" though was when an escape room we played had an optional lockpicking challenge. It turned out to just be a clear practice lock which I got through it with no trouble, and then proceeded to pick a pair of handcuffs that apparently I wasn't supposed to pick. I had never tried before, but it really was as easy as it looks on TV. (they gave me a lockpick but apparently I'm not supposed to use it? there was an actual handcuff key inside one of the other locked boxes)