4 ms·

Isn't the term R&D being overused? I don't think any research actually happens. Almost by definition, hacking and building things is just development.

by narkee 15y ago

motdiem 15y ago
R&D is commonly swapped with 'devs' in French companies
- tripa 15y ago
  For fiscal reasons.
  - ovi256 15y ago
    I wanted to share juicy anecdotes about a company I know that does this, but that would be counterproductive. Let's just say asking for tax discounts and credits because you do R&D (or you classify your software dev as R&D) is very usual in France. A key phrase to research if you want to know more is "JEI - jeune entreprise innovante".
    - sgentle 15y ago
      Huh, fascinating. My dilettante translation of the French Wikipedia entry: "The statute of Jeune Enterprise Innovante (JEI), created in the 2004 budget bill, applies to small to medium businesses (in the EU, that means <250 employees, <50mil turnover, <40mil assets). The businesses must be less than 8 years old with R&D representing at least 15% of their expenses." The benefits seem ridiculous. The article says they include exemption from revenue tax, payroll tax and an exemption from capital gains tax for associates (investors? not sure if I read that bit right). Seems like the Wikipedia article might be a bit out of date, though. A French government website had a different list of benefits not including anything about capital gains, but adding an exemption for property tax. Someone native should probably check my understanding, but it looks like you get a pretty sweet deal if you can convince the French government you're doing R&D.
      - tripa 15y ago
        Indeed you get a pretty sweet deal, and I know a few that do. But the R&D benefits aren't only for startups, most big companies try to fit all they can under CIR ("Crédit d'impôt recherche"—research tax exemption).
skylar 15y ago
Good point. It's intended more as a metaphor. Arguably, most companies' R&D departments are little more than "development" anyway. But it is a place where experimentation & innovation is the focus. Hackathons often come out as equally effective sources of R&D compared to formal corporate divisions. But this is Hacker News. It's a bit trite splitting hairs over the definition of "research" and "hack" here, no? :)

Isn't the term R&D being overused? I don't think any research actually happens. Almost by definition, hacking and building things is just development.

by narkee 15y ago

Isn't the term R&D being overused? I don't think any research actually happens. Almost by definition, hacking and building things is just development.

motdiem 15y ago

R&D is commonly swapped with 'devs' in French companies

tripa 15y ago
For fiscal reasons.
- ovi256 15y ago
  I wanted to share juicy anecdotes about a company I know that does this, but that would be counterproductive. Let's just say asking for tax discounts and credits because you do R&D (or you classify your software dev as R&D) is very usual in France. A key phrase to research if you want to know more is "JEI - jeune entreprise innovante".
  - sgentle 15y ago
    Huh, fascinating. My dilettante translation of the French Wikipedia entry: "The statute of Jeune Enterprise Innovante (JEI), created in the 2004 budget bill, applies to small to medium businesses (in the EU, that means <250 employees, <50mil turnover, <40mil assets). The businesses must be less than 8 years old with R&D representing at least 15% of their expenses." The benefits seem ridiculous. The article says they include exemption from revenue tax, payroll tax and an exemption from capital gains tax for associates (investors? not sure if I read that bit right). Seems like the Wikipedia article might be a bit out of date, though. A French government website had a different list of benefits not including anything about capital gains, but adding an exemption for property tax. Someone native should probably check my understanding, but it looks like you get a pretty sweet deal if you can convince the French government you're doing R&D.
    - tripa 15y ago
      Indeed you get a pretty sweet deal, and I know a few that do. But the R&D benefits aren't only for startups, most big companies try to fit all they can under CIR ("Crédit d'impôt recherche"—research tax exemption).

skylar 15y ago

Good point. It's intended more as a metaphor. Arguably, most companies' R&D departments are little more than "development" anyway. But it is a place where experimentation & innovation is the focus. Hackathons often come out as equally effective sources of R&D compared to formal corporate divisions. But this is Hacker News. It's a bit trite splitting hairs over the definition of "research" and "hack" here, no? :)