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It still seems we're talking about completely different things, or maybe you're trying to derail the conversation... Both ML-based processing and tonemapping t
by orbital-decay 5y ago
It still seems we're talking about completely different things, or maybe you're trying to derail the conversation...
Both ML-based processing and tonemapping take place after demosaicing to produce the final JPEG. RAW capture is just your typical laplacian pyramid stacking/exposure fusion with motion compensation and sensor-specific calibration. That's the main contributing factor that somewhat compensates for the sensor size, not some kind of ML processing. If you think that ML is somehow involved here, I have zero idea where you are getting it from. The entire point of pre-demosaicing pipeline is to robustly converge the captured stack into a neutral scene-referred baseline with provably better SNR and precise photometric parameters. And that's what you get in a resulting DNG, not some neural tonemapped RGB image (which is not even created at this point).
Perhaps you should look at the pipeline yourself, here's the source code for a typical "computational imaging" camera app that produces stacked RAWs, for example. [1] And here's what Google Camera does [2] [3] (you can ignore everything that comes after demosaicing). Google's particular method is also partially implemented for arbitrary RAWs as third-party software, so you can stack any burst capture from your camera with the same method smartphones do. [4] (there's much less benefit for normal sized sensors, for obvious reasons)
[1] https://github.com/mirsadm/motioncam/ https://github.com/mirsadm/motioncam/
[2] https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/hdrplusdata.org/en//hdrplus.pdf https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/hdrplusdata.org/e... (PDF)
[3] https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/hdrplusdata.org/en//hdrplus_supp.pdf https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/hdrplusdata.org/e... (PDF)
[4] https://github.com/martin-marek/hdr-plus-swift https://github.com/martin-marek/hdr-plus-swift
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- goblin89 5y ago> It still seems we're talking about completely different things, or maybe you're trying to derail the conversation... I am making literally the same point I made when replying to jhoechtl: phones and cameras are different beasts, and the next iPhone is unlikely to obsolete semi-pro mirrorless cameras. Judging by your tone, you are dead set at proving me wrong, but I can’t see a meaningful argument. Why do you keep reverting to ML involvement at pre-demosaicing level? “Magic” computed raws is not something I claimed to happen now, nor am I certain it ever will—I just speculated we are logically headed there and if we do get there it may affect my view at phones vs. mirrorless. So no, not interested in a hypothetical typical “dumb” camera app or raw capture from a phone. I mean the computationally more advanced capture (like the one done by bog standard Camera) that produces good images, which is what makes people think iPhone can rival a mirrorless. If you take away (by shooting raw or using a dumber app) semantic masks and all the magic it uses to obtain display-referred data for you, you just get a mediocre camera compared to a mirrorless, and it will remain the case for the next few iPhone releases.