4 ms·

A lot of these scams originate from outside the US though, so presumably it's a lot more difficult for the DOJ to go after them.

by ywain 5y ago

MertsA 5y ago
And yet tons of them involve shipping packages of money to US addresses and having a mule pick it up. So many times these scams will involve trying to convince their victims that the IRS only accepts payment via iTunes gift cards. Apple doesn't settle purchases with third parties instantly and yet if you were to call up Apple minutes after giving a scammer the gift card code you'll be greeted with the following response. https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?t=20 https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?t=20 They still have every cent, they know the intermediary vendor who is laundering the money, and they'll still tell you to pound sand. All they've done is move the money from their right hand to their left and take their hefty cut in fees yet they pretend that clearly the scammers wanted those 500 limited edition seeds in some shitty Farmville ripoff and play dumb about the App developer who's very clearly in on the scam. They lose 30% to Apple and trying to convince victims that they can only accept payment in iTunes gift cards has to absolutely tank their conversion rate yet they still favor iTunes and Google Play because at the end of the day even after the huge fees they're still more likely to get more money than trying to transfer money through more traditional means. DOJ still lets them get away with it. If they started charging entities facilitating fraud triple the fees they gained from it I'd bet Apple would start caring about it real quick.
tempnow987 5y ago
This is largely false. Almost all these scams involve various forms of money laundering to/from US institutions and through US persons. Plenty of routes for enforcement here. Many / most including fraud carried out within the US against US persons using US infrastructure (including phones etc). Plenty of opportunities to go after the "bulletproof" hosts and those who accept terminations from them (SIP -> T-Mobile etc). Plenty of opportunities to put MUCH MUCH more pressure on countries like India which tolerate this scamming of US persons. Beyond that, new rules, for example, if you want to terminate overseas SIP calls into the US, you have to post a bond relative to your call volume. Folks can file claims against that bond. If the bond was not posted (or not checked), then the upstream provider is on the hook. Upstream providers can deny service to entrants who will not post bond and who originate call volumes internationally.

A lot of these scams originate from outside the US though, so presumably it's a lot more difficult for the DOJ to go after them.

by ywain 5y ago

A lot of these scams originate from outside the US though, so presumably it's a lot more difficult for the DOJ to go after them.

MertsA 5y ago

And yet tons of them involve shipping packages of money to US addresses and having a mule pick it up. So many times these scams will involve trying to convince their victims that the IRS only accepts payment via iTunes gift cards. Apple doesn't settle purchases with third parties instantly and yet if you were to call up Apple minutes after giving a scammer the gift card code you'll be greeted with the following response. https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?t=20 https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?t=20 They still have every cent, they know the intermediary vendor who is laundering the money, and they'll still tell you to pound sand. All they've done is move the money from their right hand to their left and take their hefty cut in fees yet they pretend that clearly the scammers wanted those 500 limited edition seeds in some shitty Farmville ripoff and play dumb about the App developer who's very clearly in on the scam. They lose 30% to Apple and trying to convince victims that they can only accept payment in iTunes gift cards has to absolutely tank their conversion rate yet they still favor iTunes and Google Play because at the end of the day even after the huge fees they're still more likely to get more money than trying to transfer money through more traditional means. DOJ still lets them get away with it. If they started charging entities facilitating fraud triple the fees they gained from it I'd bet Apple would start caring about it real quick.

tempnow987 5y ago

This is largely false. Almost all these scams involve various forms of money laundering to/from US institutions and through US persons. Plenty of routes for enforcement here. Many / most including fraud carried out within the US against US persons using US infrastructure (including phones etc). Plenty of opportunities to go after the "bulletproof" hosts and those who accept terminations from them (SIP -> T-Mobile etc). Plenty of opportunities to put MUCH MUCH more pressure on countries like India which tolerate this scamming of US persons. Beyond that, new rules, for example, if you want to terminate overseas SIP calls into the US, you have to post a bond relative to your call volume. Folks can file claims against that bond. If the bond was not posted (or not checked), then the upstream provider is on the hook. Upstream providers can deny service to entrants who will not post bond and who originate call volumes internationally.