5 ms·

Pretty easy to Google images of retail in Manhattan. Huge percentage of stores were vandalized and had their goods stolen. Here you go: https://www.google.com/

Pretty easy to Google images of retail in Manhattan. Huge percentage of stores were vandalized and had their goods stolen. Here you go: https://www.google.com/search?q=manhattan+2020+protest+retail+looting&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjr_aWgm7f1AhVvCZ0JHd6CD4kQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=manhattan+2020+protest+retail+looting&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoHCCMQ7wMQJzoFCCEQqwI6BAghEApQvAVYviBgtiFoAHAAeACAAaoBiAGCDpIBBDE2LjSYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=wY3kYauZLe-S9PwP3oW-yAg&bih=679&biw=393&prmd=nisxv https://www.google.com/search?q=manhattan+2020+protest+retai... There was effectively no police response for the first few days and each night looting got worse. Eventually the police mobilized and normalized the situation

tedunangst 5y ago
Instead of saying huge percentage, why not just tell us the number?
- adam_arthur 5y ago
  Why don't you Google it and report back? I lived there at the time, it was very widespread and pretty much universal across mid-lower manhattan. Anyway, I saved you the trouble: "An estimated 450 businesses across New York City were vandalized and in some cases looted in late May and early June, according to the city's Department of Small Business Services." Don't need the stats to back it up if you were there to see it though.
  - camjw 5y ago
    0.2% is a huge percentage?
    - adam_arthur 5y ago
      Well, how are you computing it? Majority of looting was in retail businesses in lower Manhattan. If you're computing overall number of businesses in New York then you're just being disingenuous. So you're counting retail stores in Staten island too? Are you including non retail businesses? How about watch literally any video of the protests in Manhattan to see for yourself? To say there wasn't widespread looting in Manhattan is just wrong, and easily disproven by the evidence. Here you go: https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Manhattan+2020+looting https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Manhattan... Don't believe your lying eyes, right? Funny all this pushback from people who most likely don't even live there.
      - cardamomo 5y ago
        450 businesses is about 1.4% of NYC's retail businesses. According to the state, "In 2019, New York City’s retail sector comprised 32,600 businesses" [0]. That's enough to be noticable, but I wouldn't describe it as a huge percentage. Per my understanding, most of the thefts occured at high-end retail in Lower Manhattan. Is that what you saw? [0] https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-york-city-recent-trends-and-impact-covid-19 https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-y...
        adam_arthur 5y ago
        Vast majority was in lower Manhattan. Which represents about 5% or less of NYC landmass. So you can multiply 1.4% by 10-20 to get a more accurate number
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    Dozens of businesses. Dozens I say!
  - tedunangst 5y ago
    Okay, according to google there are 220,000 businesses in New York, so 0.2% were looted. Thanks.
    - sk5t 5y ago
      Would “1/50th of a decimation” pack more of a punch here?
    - flyinglizard 5y ago
      What's the acceptable threshold for society as far as looting goes? In my eyes, even one business warrants a firm police response. 450 is an admission of losing sovereignty.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - msbarnett 5y ago
    This: https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-york-city-recent-trends-and-impact-covid-19/ https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-y... suggests that there are more than 36,000 retail stores in NYC. 450/36000 == 1.3% of retail businesses were "vandalized and in some cases looted", phrasing which suggests rather less than that were actually looted. The suggestion that "Huge percentage of stores were vandalized and had their goods stolen" seems absurdly hyperbolic given these numbers. edit: corrected accidental use of state wide number
    - adam_arthur 5y ago
      You're not very knowledgeable about the geography of New York, are you? Do you know what the landmass of lower Manhattan relative to overall New York City is? Do you understand what a non uniform distribution is? Clearly nobody responding is familiar with basic math. I'll spell it out for you guys. Landmass of lower Manhattan = very small vs overall New York. Using total retail stores in New York is highly misleading for that reason alone. I could also say 450 is only .000001% of stores in the USA, so there's no problem! Same logic you're using, by the way
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        You're not very knowledgeable about the geography of New York either, are you? Like your 450 number is from all 5 boroughs, did you not realize that New York City refers to all 5 boroughs and not just like Midtown or something? - I don't know why you're trying so hard to mislead people. Do you just live in Soho and want to act like Soho is lower Manhattan? Or more specifically, like the 4 blocks of Broadway in Soho that got hit hardest? I already commented this but those protests did not do widespread damage to Manhattan, there were very centralized pockets of damage. In fact, Manhattan probably had the most damage by dollars because of Soho luxury stores, but by actual damage to individual businesses the outer boroughs were infinitely worse off, and even that was highly centralized...
        adam_arthur 5y ago
        No, I'm the one who's not misleading people. Looting was 90% concentrated in lower Manhattan. If you were there, or watch any news report from the time, it's extremely obvious and supported by the evidence. All I said is that lower Manhattan had widespread looting, which is true. Everybody here throwing out total retail or even total businesses in NYC to discredit what I'm saying are the ones being misleading. Everything I've said is backed up by facts. Say 450 is an accurate number. Well 90% can reasonably be assumed to be lower Manhattan, and we know lower Manhattan is less than 5% of the landmass of NYC. So no, you're the one being misleading. Pretty crazy all these people trying to gaslight as if it didn't happen, when I lived there and walked down the streets and saw it myself. It's no surprise an ex cop just won as mayor of NYC, when you have people with this attitude supporting retail theft/looting at all costs. New Yorkers got tired of it, sorry.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    Dude what are you even talking about? 450 was across all 5 boroughs and that is the complete and utter opposite of widespread... Most of the damage in all 5 boroughs was highly concentrated in specific blocks like what happened on 5th Ave - Like I get it, for a small business owner sweeping out their store 1 was too many, but c'mon, don't be dishonest. 450 businesses across all 5 boroughs and including even basic graffiti in that count... that was the literal opposite of widespread looting.
nitwit005 5y ago
I'd be careful of using reporters photos to "prove" that substantial damage occurred. They have a history of stretching reality with their photography: https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/01/20/searching-metaphor-reporters-flock-burning-dc-garbage-can/ https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/01/20/searching-metaphor-...

tedunangst 5y ago

Instead of saying huge percentage, why not just tell us the number?

adam_arthur 5y ago
Why don't you Google it and report back? I lived there at the time, it was very widespread and pretty much universal across mid-lower manhattan. Anyway, I saved you the trouble: "An estimated 450 businesses across New York City were vandalized and in some cases looted in late May and early June, according to the city's Department of Small Business Services." Don't need the stats to back it up if you were there to see it though.
- camjw 5y ago
  0.2% is a huge percentage?
  - adam_arthur 5y ago
    Well, how are you computing it? Majority of looting was in retail businesses in lower Manhattan. If you're computing overall number of businesses in New York then you're just being disingenuous. So you're counting retail stores in Staten island too? Are you including non retail businesses? How about watch literally any video of the protests in Manhattan to see for yourself? To say there wasn't widespread looting in Manhattan is just wrong, and easily disproven by the evidence. Here you go: https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Manhattan+2020+looting https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Manhattan... Don't believe your lying eyes, right? Funny all this pushback from people who most likely don't even live there.
    - cardamomo 5y ago
      450 businesses is about 1.4% of NYC's retail businesses. According to the state, "In 2019, New York City’s retail sector comprised 32,600 businesses" [0]. That's enough to be noticable, but I wouldn't describe it as a huge percentage. Per my understanding, most of the thefts occured at high-end retail in Lower Manhattan. Is that what you saw? [0] https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-york-city-recent-trends-and-impact-covid-19 https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-y...
      - adam_arthur 5y ago
        Vast majority was in lower Manhattan. Which represents about 5% or less of NYC landmass. So you can multiply 1.4% by 10-20 to get a more accurate number
- thehappypm 5y ago
  Dozens of businesses. Dozens I say!
- tedunangst 5y ago
  Okay, according to google there are 220,000 businesses in New York, so 0.2% were looted. Thanks.
  - sk5t 5y ago
    Would “1/50th of a decimation” pack more of a punch here?
  - flyinglizard 5y ago
    What's the acceptable threshold for society as far as looting goes? In my eyes, even one business warrants a firm police response. 450 is an admission of losing sovereignty.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- msbarnett 5y ago
  This: https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-york-city-recent-trends-and-impact-covid-19/ https://www.osc.state.ny.us/reports/osdc/retail-sector-new-y... suggests that there are more than 36,000 retail stores in NYC. 450/36000 == 1.3% of retail businesses were "vandalized and in some cases looted", phrasing which suggests rather less than that were actually looted. The suggestion that "Huge percentage of stores were vandalized and had their goods stolen" seems absurdly hyperbolic given these numbers. edit: corrected accidental use of state wide number
  - adam_arthur 5y ago
    You're not very knowledgeable about the geography of New York, are you? Do you know what the landmass of lower Manhattan relative to overall New York City is? Do you understand what a non uniform distribution is? Clearly nobody responding is familiar with basic math. I'll spell it out for you guys. Landmass of lower Manhattan = very small vs overall New York. Using total retail stores in New York is highly misleading for that reason alone. I could also say 450 is only .000001% of stores in the USA, so there's no problem! Same logic you're using, by the way
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      You're not very knowledgeable about the geography of New York either, are you? Like your 450 number is from all 5 boroughs, did you not realize that New York City refers to all 5 boroughs and not just like Midtown or something? - I don't know why you're trying so hard to mislead people. Do you just live in Soho and want to act like Soho is lower Manhattan? Or more specifically, like the 4 blocks of Broadway in Soho that got hit hardest? I already commented this but those protests did not do widespread damage to Manhattan, there were very centralized pockets of damage. In fact, Manhattan probably had the most damage by dollars because of Soho luxury stores, but by actual damage to individual businesses the outer boroughs were infinitely worse off, and even that was highly centralized...
      - adam_arthur 5y ago
        No, I'm the one who's not misleading people. Looting was 90% concentrated in lower Manhattan. If you were there, or watch any news report from the time, it's extremely obvious and supported by the evidence. All I said is that lower Manhattan had widespread looting, which is true. Everybody here throwing out total retail or even total businesses in NYC to discredit what I'm saying are the ones being misleading. Everything I've said is backed up by facts. Say 450 is an accurate number. Well 90% can reasonably be assumed to be lower Manhattan, and we know lower Manhattan is less than 5% of the landmass of NYC. So no, you're the one being misleading. Pretty crazy all these people trying to gaslight as if it didn't happen, when I lived there and walked down the streets and saw it myself. It's no surprise an ex cop just won as mayor of NYC, when you have people with this attitude supporting retail theft/looting at all costs. New Yorkers got tired of it, sorry.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  Dude what are you even talking about? 450 was across all 5 boroughs and that is the complete and utter opposite of widespread... Most of the damage in all 5 boroughs was highly concentrated in specific blocks like what happened on 5th Ave - Like I get it, for a small business owner sweeping out their store 1 was too many, but c'mon, don't be dishonest. 450 businesses across all 5 boroughs and including even basic graffiti in that count... that was the literal opposite of widespread looting.

nitwit005 5y ago

I'd be careful of using reporters photos to "prove" that substantial damage occurred. They have a history of stretching reality with their photography: https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/01/20/searching-metaphor-reporters-flock-burning-dc-garbage-can/ https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/01/20/searching-metaphor-...