5 ms·

It could be that. Or it could be the lax prosecution of property crimes.

by mberning 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
awb 5y ago
Or the difficulty in actually solving them.
Hokusai 5y ago
The USA has death penalty and the highest rate of incarceration in the world. It's it the safest, thou?
- smsm42 5y ago
  No, because having death penalty for the most heinous of crimes does not help everyday safety, if the lower level crimes are deliberately left without prosecution - which is exactly what is happening now in California.
ameister14 5y ago
With 2.2 million people in jail or prison I think it's a bit ridiculous to argue that the US has lax prosecution as an issue relative to any other countries. I'll be a bit more specific - there are about 400,000 people currently incarcerated in the US for property crimes. That's higher than the per capita rate of incarceration for any crime in Canada. If the US is lax in prosecuting property crimes, then I don't think any other developed country is hard on crime.
- smsm42 5y ago
  You're confusing several different things, which is excusable for a person not living in the US, but still very misleading. What is overwhelmingly driving US's incarceration rate is War on Drugs. US has some insane policies - depending on the state, but it's a large contributor to the overall figure - regarding drug-related crimes. Legalization of some drugs, like in California, helps a bit - but given an insane amount of regulation and taxation the legal business is beset by, the illegal route is still very attractive and profitable. The other side is the proliferation of "woke" prosecutors and local managers, refusing to prosecute crimes like petty theft (in SF, theft below $900 is in essence legal), property destruction, simple assault, etc. That is compounded by extremely permissive policies towards public homelessness and establishing homeless camps on any public property, often even burdening the adjacent private property with tolerating and supporting them. All this creates a very fertile ground for certain type of crime - there's a bunch of people that aren't very connected to social norms at the best of times, but also they know they'd never suffer any consequences for robbing a store or breaking into a car, or punching someone on the street. And there's organized crime, which knows these people can be exploited as foot soldiers in a criminal enterprise of stealing high-value items and reselling them in ad-hoc markets, or online - which is never being prosecuted, because people who are supposed to stop this are ideologically bound to address "societal roots of the crime" - which never happens - instead of going for the criminals. So yes, you can have both high incarceration rates and extremely lax prosecution for certain crimes - at the same time. Worst of the both worlds.
  - ameister14 5y ago
    >What is overwhelmingly driving US's incarceration rate is War on Drugs. Yeah, that's only a part of it. While a significant problem, drug related crimes make up only 20% of the total incarcerated number. (That 1/5 is still on its own more than the incarcerated per capita rates for all crimes in comparable countries like Canada and the UK, so it's definitely a big deal.) The numbers for non-violent drug crimes are higher as an overall percentage in the Federal system than they are at the State level. Again, 400,000 is just property crimes. About 1 in 3 people currently held in jail for property crimes are there for larceny/theft or stolen property. I don't agree about the 'fertile ground' for crime you're talking about in part because I have never seen any evidence for it. It's in movies, but I haven't really seen it in real life, and I've been looking at the data for a little while now. I am completely willing to be schooled on that if you've got some evidence though.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      Well, here's any evidence: https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1482115852216385538 https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1482115852216385538 But I don't need UP to give me evidence - I see it each time I leave home and see ever-growing homeless camps next to my house, and read about robberies in the stores I visited only recently. Over 16 years I've lived in California, I never seen this type of brazenly open criminality around. I wish it were movies, but it's the reality.

It could be that. Or it could be the lax prosecution of property crimes.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

awb 5y ago

Or the difficulty in actually solving them.

Hokusai 5y ago

The USA has death penalty and the highest rate of incarceration in the world. It's it the safest, thou?

smsm42 5y ago
No, because having death penalty for the most heinous of crimes does not help everyday safety, if the lower level crimes are deliberately left without prosecution - which is exactly what is happening now in California.

ameister14 5y ago

With 2.2 million people in jail or prison I think it's a bit ridiculous to argue that the US has lax prosecution as an issue relative to any other countries. I'll be a bit more specific - there are about 400,000 people currently incarcerated in the US for property crimes. That's higher than the per capita rate of incarceration for any crime in Canada. If the US is lax in prosecuting property crimes, then I don't think any other developed country is hard on crime.

smsm42 5y ago
You're confusing several different things, which is excusable for a person not living in the US, but still very misleading. What is overwhelmingly driving US's incarceration rate is War on Drugs. US has some insane policies - depending on the state, but it's a large contributor to the overall figure - regarding drug-related crimes. Legalization of some drugs, like in California, helps a bit - but given an insane amount of regulation and taxation the legal business is beset by, the illegal route is still very attractive and profitable. The other side is the proliferation of "woke" prosecutors and local managers, refusing to prosecute crimes like petty theft (in SF, theft below $900 is in essence legal), property destruction, simple assault, etc. That is compounded by extremely permissive policies towards public homelessness and establishing homeless camps on any public property, often even burdening the adjacent private property with tolerating and supporting them. All this creates a very fertile ground for certain type of crime - there's a bunch of people that aren't very connected to social norms at the best of times, but also they know they'd never suffer any consequences for robbing a store or breaking into a car, or punching someone on the street. And there's organized crime, which knows these people can be exploited as foot soldiers in a criminal enterprise of stealing high-value items and reselling them in ad-hoc markets, or online - which is never being prosecuted, because people who are supposed to stop this are ideologically bound to address "societal roots of the crime" - which never happens - instead of going for the criminals. So yes, you can have both high incarceration rates and extremely lax prosecution for certain crimes - at the same time. Worst of the both worlds.
- ameister14 5y ago
  >What is overwhelmingly driving US's incarceration rate is War on Drugs. Yeah, that's only a part of it. While a significant problem, drug related crimes make up only 20% of the total incarcerated number. (That 1/5 is still on its own more than the incarcerated per capita rates for all crimes in comparable countries like Canada and the UK, so it's definitely a big deal.) The numbers for non-violent drug crimes are higher as an overall percentage in the Federal system than they are at the State level. Again, 400,000 is just property crimes. About 1 in 3 people currently held in jail for property crimes are there for larceny/theft or stolen property. I don't agree about the 'fertile ground' for crime you're talking about in part because I have never seen any evidence for it. It's in movies, but I haven't really seen it in real life, and I've been looking at the data for a little while now. I am completely willing to be schooled on that if you've got some evidence though.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    Well, here's any evidence: https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1482115852216385538 https://twitter.com/CBSLAKristine/status/1482115852216385538 But I don't need UP to give me evidence - I see it each time I leave home and see ever-growing homeless camps next to my house, and read about robberies in the stores I visited only recently. Over 16 years I've lived in California, I never seen this type of brazenly open criminality around. I wish it were movies, but it's the reality.