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You should probably take Viral 101 over again. Vaccines definitely reduce transmission - current vaccines, however, are barely, if at all, effective against Omi

You should probably take Viral 101 over again. Vaccines definitely reduce transmission - current vaccines, however, are barely, if at all, effective against Omicron. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... IF we had been able to vaccinate 90%+ of the world by the start of last summer, this pandemic had a good chance of ending. Delta made it much more difficult, and Omicron crushed that option. "it's possible for a variant to come out that gets around all vaccinations every time, so therefore vaccines can't stop the pandemic" means that you definitely failed Viral 101.

b112 5y ago
You should probably take Viral 101 over again. Vaccines definitely reduce transmission This is a third order effect, not first. They do not reduce transmission, instead they increase immune response, thus reducing replication, thus reducing transmission. This is a vital point here. Second, please take care. At no point did I ever say "vaccines don't reduce transmission". That is a general statement, mine was specific, about current covid vaccines only. Covid is a unique beast, able to spread for weeks without creating a strong immune response, and therefore, symptoms. Other viruses seem to spread much later, and typically only when symptoms are shown. This is what makes covid so spreadable, dangerous. It may also be why successful spread is difficult to stop even when vaccinated. After all, this happened with delta too. EDIT: going to add here. COVID is in mice, deer, dogs and cats as a minimum, and other mammals are strongly suspected. A recent HN story cited a paper, where a researcher believes covid jumped from human to mouse, mutated to omicron, and jumped back to human. So, regardless of the spread and mutation happening in the currently vaccinated, we have spread and mutation in other mammals. Including ones in our homes. Think on that a bit, please people.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  > This is a third order effect, not first. They do not reduce transmission, instead they increase immune response, thus reducing replication, thus reducing transmission. That's literally what is meant by "vaccines reduce transmission". Vaccines are not some nanobots that form a forcefield around your body preventing viruses from getting to you.
  - b112 5y ago
    You cite the effect, I cite the cause leading to effect. The cause is vitally important, when you are abridging my statements, skipping cause, and attempting to make point by debating effect only.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
Even with Omicron, if everybody were vaccinated, the pandemic would be over, and we could open up society with endemic Covid, with hospitalization for a fully vaccinated population being lower than seasonal flu.

b112 5y ago

You should probably take Viral 101 over again. Vaccines definitely reduce transmission This is a third order effect, not first. They do not reduce transmission, instead they increase immune response, thus reducing replication, thus reducing transmission. This is a vital point here. Second, please take care. At no point did I ever say "vaccines don't reduce transmission". That is a general statement, mine was specific, about current covid vaccines only. Covid is a unique beast, able to spread for weeks without creating a strong immune response, and therefore, symptoms. Other viruses seem to spread much later, and typically only when symptoms are shown. This is what makes covid so spreadable, dangerous. It may also be why successful spread is difficult to stop even when vaccinated. After all, this happened with delta too. EDIT: going to add here. COVID is in mice, deer, dogs and cats as a minimum, and other mammals are strongly suspected. A recent HN story cited a paper, where a researcher believes covid jumped from human to mouse, mutated to omicron, and jumped back to human. So, regardless of the spread and mutation happening in the currently vaccinated, we have spread and mutation in other mammals. Including ones in our homes. Think on that a bit, please people.

gilbetron 5y ago
> This is a third order effect, not first. They do not reduce transmission, instead they increase immune response, thus reducing replication, thus reducing transmission. That's literally what is meant by "vaccines reduce transmission". Vaccines are not some nanobots that form a forcefield around your body preventing viruses from getting to you.
- b112 5y ago
  You cite the effect, I cite the cause leading to effect. The cause is vitally important, when you are abridging my statements, skipping cause, and attempting to make point by debating effect only.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

Even with Omicron, if everybody were vaccinated, the pandemic would be over, and we could open up society with endemic Covid, with hospitalization for a fully vaccinated population being lower than seasonal flu.