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And you can think that, just like people can think you are racist for telling Indians what they can and can’t find reasonable about their own stereotypes. “I s

And you can think that, just like people can think you are racist for telling Indians what they can and can’t find reasonable about their own stereotypes. “I should hire some bottom of the barrel bootcamp graduates”. Bootcamp graduates in this example is a derogatory name for sub-par devs. We know this because there is a stigma around bootcamp devs in the industry. If you said this, no one is doing the mental gymnastics of “oh, they are separating the great bootcampers from the bottom of the barrel”. No, they assume you look down on bootcamps. Context matters. History matters. Saying “bottom of the barrel Indian devs” in todays software industry, is a racist remark.

Jensson 5y ago
> Context matters. Right. And the context in this case is cost to run a company with a given headcount. The cost of 200 bottom of the barrel developers in America and 200 bottom of the barrel developers in India is substantial, which is why you have to include the location in this context. If the context was talking about the efficiency of developers instead of cost you would have a point, but it isn't.
- throwaway413 5y ago
  “Bottom of the barrel devs in India” !== “bottom of the barrel Indian devs” Way to move the goal posts. Do I need to explain this? You’ve contextualized the bucket in your new statement. Why do you think that efficiency difference exists in the first place? Maybe because Indian/Asian developers are not valued as much as other parts of the world. Almost as if people treat and talk about them like the bottom of the barrel… It’s a cycle that you continue to enforce by using that terminology.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    - throwaway413 5y ago
      Where did I assume bad intention? I explicitly said mistakes happen, chalking it up to accidental wording. Two comments up. [1] And yes, I went very far out of my way to comment on the website I visit multiple times a day. You can continue doing your word gymnastics. Again, “devs stationed in India” !== “Indian devs”. Yes, words are ambiguous, which is why it is important we try to get them right! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29957642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29957642
      - Jensson 5y ago
        You are right he could have been more clear, but the backlash here is unwarranted since there was no way that comment was racist. Instead they should just have pointed out that he could have phrased the comment better, but assuming he is racist just because he phrased it poorly like many others here do is just toxic. It is very clear what he meant if you think a bit.
        throwaway413 5y ago
        Jensson 5y ago
        throwaway413 5y ago
        “If he said "If you hire bottom of the barrel American developers" then nobody would have said a thing.” Because there is no existing, racist, “bottom of the barrel” stereotype around American devs.
        Jensson 5y ago
  - geodel 5y ago
    > Maybe because Indian/Asian developers are not valued as much as other parts of the world. Maybe Indian/Asian developer not sell their services at rates they consider cheap. It's a cycle that will continue if they keep selling their labor at low price.
    - throwaway413 5y ago
      You’re right - I hear other less fortunate parts of the world are ready for their turn to get overworked and underpaid. Not like it has to do with the fact they hold the worlds largest populations or anything. Nah, you’re right. Their boards should tell them to raise prices and reject all else. Who cares if the kids don’t eat?
      - geodel 5y ago
        Then maybe it's you who need to get down from high horse and realize people do not live beyond space and time. And people just can't choose the best things at any place and any time. > Who cares if the kids don’t eat? Ah, I thought kids in poor countries could just eat virtues provided free of cost from otherwise no-good virtue signalers.
geodel 5y ago
> Context matters. History matters. More than that it seems outrage matters. That's what you are trying to do here.
- throwaway413 5y ago

Jensson 5y ago

> Context matters. Right. And the context in this case is cost to run a company with a given headcount. The cost of 200 bottom of the barrel developers in America and 200 bottom of the barrel developers in India is substantial, which is why you have to include the location in this context. If the context was talking about the efficiency of developers instead of cost you would have a point, but it isn't.

throwaway413 5y ago
“Bottom of the barrel devs in India” !== “bottom of the barrel Indian devs” Way to move the goal posts. Do I need to explain this? You’ve contextualized the bucket in your new statement. Why do you think that efficiency difference exists in the first place? Maybe because Indian/Asian developers are not valued as much as other parts of the world. Almost as if people treat and talk about them like the bottom of the barrel… It’s a cycle that you continue to enforce by using that terminology.
- Jensson 5y ago
  - throwaway413 5y ago
    Where did I assume bad intention? I explicitly said mistakes happen, chalking it up to accidental wording. Two comments up. [1] And yes, I went very far out of my way to comment on the website I visit multiple times a day. You can continue doing your word gymnastics. Again, “devs stationed in India” !== “Indian devs”. Yes, words are ambiguous, which is why it is important we try to get them right! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29957642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29957642
    - Jensson 5y ago
      You are right he could have been more clear, but the backlash here is unwarranted since there was no way that comment was racist. Instead they should just have pointed out that he could have phrased the comment better, but assuming he is racist just because he phrased it poorly like many others here do is just toxic. It is very clear what he meant if you think a bit.
      - throwaway413 5y ago
        Jensson 5y ago
        throwaway413 5y ago
        “If he said "If you hire bottom of the barrel American developers" then nobody would have said a thing.” Because there is no existing, racist, “bottom of the barrel” stereotype around American devs.
        Jensson 5y ago
- geodel 5y ago
  > Maybe because Indian/Asian developers are not valued as much as other parts of the world. Maybe Indian/Asian developer not sell their services at rates they consider cheap. It's a cycle that will continue if they keep selling their labor at low price.
  - throwaway413 5y ago
    You’re right - I hear other less fortunate parts of the world are ready for their turn to get overworked and underpaid. Not like it has to do with the fact they hold the worlds largest populations or anything. Nah, you’re right. Their boards should tell them to raise prices and reject all else. Who cares if the kids don’t eat?
    - geodel 5y ago
      Then maybe it's you who need to get down from high horse and realize people do not live beyond space and time. And people just can't choose the best things at any place and any time. > Who cares if the kids don’t eat? Ah, I thought kids in poor countries could just eat virtues provided free of cost from otherwise no-good virtue signalers.

geodel 5y ago

> Context matters. History matters. More than that it seems outrage matters. That's what you are trying to do here.

throwaway413 5y ago