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We can multitask. All of these are bad, but it seems to me, you are wasting energy being angry at this person dealing with her problems of choice instead of fix

We can multitask. All of these are bad, but it seems to me, you are wasting energy being angry at this person dealing with her problems of choice instead of fixing the ones you use here as a cludgel. How are is shutting this person up going to help fixing there wrongs?

PontifexMinimus 5y ago
> you are wasting energy being angry at this person dealing with her problems of choice instead of fixing the ones you use here as a cludgel I have in the past spent thousands of hours and thousands of pounds attempting to fix some of these issues. > How are is shutting this person up going to help fixing there wrongs? I don't want to shut them up, I want to redirect their energy to things that are productive.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  Following the link in your profile, I'll believe you and thank you However I still do not agree that it helps the greater cause do dismiss identity politics aggressively. Let them right their fight, fight yours, collaborate where possible.
  - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
    > I still do not agree that it helps the greater cause do dismiss identity politics aggressively. I think that in some cases the woke identity politics not only doesn't help, it actively hinders things.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      But you certainly don't feel the need to back that up with any kind of objective evidence.
      - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
        Here is some objective evidence[1] that woke rhetoric pisses off voters and allows people like Donald Trump and Boris Johnson to get elected: > Blue-collar workers are especially sensitive to candidate messaging — and respond even more acutely to the differences between populist and “woke” language. Primarily manual blue-collar workers, in comparison with primarily white-collar workers, were even more drawn to candidates who stressed bread-and-butter issues, and who avoided activist rhetoric. (Via [2], second segment) If you are an intellectually honest person, you'll admit you were wrong, and that I have backed it up with objective evidence. [1]: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-working-class-voting-report https://jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-worki... [2]: https://pontifex.substack.com/p/links-15-cash-for-peerages-and-illegal https://pontifex.substack.com/p/links-15-cash-for-peerages-a...
        igorkraw 5y ago
        Leaving the strategic timing of identity politics out of this, do you in principle agree that this type of backlash is a sign of the need for some form of "woke activism" so the idea of gender equality, trans right, minority rights etc isn't met with what are effectively temper tantrums (without meaning this dismissively if you can believe it, simply as a coding of "emotionally driven, self destructive acts")? Because I'm inclined to put at least some of the responsibility for getting Trump elected on those who vote for Trump when faced with a view they don't like. Last sentence emphasis: this is not about the strategic timing of when and how, just about the acknowledgement that "you should stop asking for these political goals otherwise I'll vote for trump again" is not something a respected person for whom identity politics isn't required would be facing

PontifexMinimus 5y ago

> you are wasting energy being angry at this person dealing with her problems of choice instead of fixing the ones you use here as a cludgel I have in the past spent thousands of hours and thousands of pounds attempting to fix some of these issues. > How are is shutting this person up going to help fixing there wrongs? I don't want to shut them up, I want to redirect their energy to things that are productive.

igorkraw 5y ago
Following the link in your profile, I'll believe you and thank you However I still do not agree that it helps the greater cause do dismiss identity politics aggressively. Let them right their fight, fight yours, collaborate where possible.
- PontifexMinimus 5y ago
  > I still do not agree that it helps the greater cause do dismiss identity politics aggressively. I think that in some cases the woke identity politics not only doesn't help, it actively hinders things.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    But you certainly don't feel the need to back that up with any kind of objective evidence.
    - PontifexMinimus 5y ago
      Here is some objective evidence[1] that woke rhetoric pisses off voters and allows people like Donald Trump and Boris Johnson to get elected: > Blue-collar workers are especially sensitive to candidate messaging — and respond even more acutely to the differences between populist and “woke” language. Primarily manual blue-collar workers, in comparison with primarily white-collar workers, were even more drawn to candidates who stressed bread-and-butter issues, and who avoided activist rhetoric. (Via [2], second segment) If you are an intellectually honest person, you'll admit you were wrong, and that I have backed it up with objective evidence. [1]: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-working-class-voting-report https://jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-worki... [2]: https://pontifex.substack.com/p/links-15-cash-for-peerages-and-illegal https://pontifex.substack.com/p/links-15-cash-for-peerages-a...
      - igorkraw 5y ago
        Leaving the strategic timing of identity politics out of this, do you in principle agree that this type of backlash is a sign of the need for some form of "woke activism" so the idea of gender equality, trans right, minority rights etc isn't met with what are effectively temper tantrums (without meaning this dismissively if you can believe it, simply as a coding of "emotionally driven, self destructive acts")? Because I'm inclined to put at least some of the responsibility for getting Trump elected on those who vote for Trump when faced with a view they don't like. Last sentence emphasis: this is not about the strategic timing of when and how, just about the acknowledgement that "you should stop asking for these political goals otherwise I'll vote for trump again" is not something a respected person for whom identity politics isn't required would be facing