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“Woke” thinking is a critique on those “thousands of years of global civilization” and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decid

“Woke” thinking is a critique on those “thousands of years of global civilization” and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves.

tonguez 5y ago
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Witches with supernatural power over nature and people have yet to be proven to exist. Hermaphrodites and all manner of (a)sexuality exist in nature. Genetic analysis suggests that monogamy is a relatively modern and unnatural state for humans. Females have also been oppressed and marginalized for most of recorded history. Progress doesn't have to be defined as conformity to surviving cultural norms or binary interpretations of genetics.
coldtea 5y ago
>and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. There are all kinds of outliers for anything, from child killing to incest, even consumption of shit as part of some rituals. But just because there are outliers doesn't mean that the ways that the huge majority over time and space followed are not natural way of things. The way of life of this people or that tribe, doesn't nullify the ways of billions upon billions for millenia. It just shows that it's not something like an invilatable physical law - but nobody thought it as such. Same ways that societies that parents casually would kill their children (like e.g. happens with unwanted daughrers in India) doesn't mean there's not a natural and societal imperative to care for them. Just that social custom, special interests, etc, can go beyond that. And it's not like they were "coerced" - civilizations and peoples came to the same answers and culture types time and again independently, even to the point of not having geographical connectivity with one another. >So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves. Well, bi, gay/lesbian, and trans people have existed since the dawn of time (and tons of historical figures have been). It's not like societies didn't know they exist (or had roles for them, as in ancient Greece and Rome). The norms for societies however were categorized by how the majority is (which is why they were called "norms"), and optimized for what helps reproduce societies and peoples. Why would societies organize social life based on some minority concerns (as opposed to just respect and give rights to those minorities)?

tonguez 5y ago

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Witches with supernatural power over nature and people have yet to be proven to exist. Hermaphrodites and all manner of (a)sexuality exist in nature. Genetic analysis suggests that monogamy is a relatively modern and unnatural state for humans. Females have also been oppressed and marginalized for most of recorded history. Progress doesn't have to be defined as conformity to surviving cultural norms or binary interpretations of genetics.

coldtea 5y ago

>and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. There are all kinds of outliers for anything, from child killing to incest, even consumption of shit as part of some rituals. But just because there are outliers doesn't mean that the ways that the huge majority over time and space followed are not natural way of things. The way of life of this people or that tribe, doesn't nullify the ways of billions upon billions for millenia. It just shows that it's not something like an invilatable physical law - but nobody thought it as such. Same ways that societies that parents casually would kill their children (like e.g. happens with unwanted daughrers in India) doesn't mean there's not a natural and societal imperative to care for them. Just that social custom, special interests, etc, can go beyond that. And it's not like they were "coerced" - civilizations and peoples came to the same answers and culture types time and again independently, even to the point of not having geographical connectivity with one another. >So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves. Well, bi, gay/lesbian, and trans people have existed since the dawn of time (and tons of historical figures have been). It's not like societies didn't know they exist (or had roles for them, as in ancient Greece and Rome). The norms for societies however were categorized by how the majority is (which is why they were called "norms"), and optimized for what helps reproduce societies and peoples. Why would societies organize social life based on some minority concerns (as opposed to just respect and give rights to those minorities)?