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> The police and intelligences agencies aren’t intercepting the communications of normal and petty criminals. Snowden showed otherwise - they're spying on ever

> The police and intelligences agencies aren’t intercepting the communications of normal and petty criminals. Snowden showed otherwise - they're spying on everyone's conversations, criminal or not.

samwillis 5y ago
If they did have that capability do you think they would use it to take down and prosecute a small time drug dealer exposing what they are doing? Even exposing this capability to the Police by give them “secret” intelligence would inevitably result in the knowledge of their capabilities leaking. If they do have this capability it is only every going to be used for large scale organised crime, terrorism and state security.
- ben_w 5y ago
  They do have this capacity. Given that the existence of this capacity is now public, it is my belief the UK is mainly limited by a combination of selective enforcement, lack of courts and lack of police (weirdly, given their preferred “tough on crime” rhetoric, U.K. courts and police are severely underfunded right now).
  - tata71 5y ago
    For the "skeptics", etc — plenty of article sources and other jump-off points here, for those that want them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_%282013%E2%80%93present%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure...
  - 7952 5y ago
    It's possible that they like surveillance because it is cheaper than traditional methods.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      They might like the cost savings for evidence gathering, but there’s something ridiculous like a half million backlog of court cases in the U.K. right now so the rest of the justice system isn’t in a position to use that evidence.
- rapind 5y ago
  > If they do have this capability it is only every going to be used for large scale organised crime, terrorism and state security. Don’t forget political opposition / dissidents, and analysis to see what they can get away with in terms of public opinion.
- dTal 5y ago
  Well, I don't know about phone conversations, but every Tom, Dick and Harry gets access to web surfing history. Given that highly casual attitude - formalised into law! - I wouldn't put it past them to informally do whatever they like with the rest of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#Authorities_allowed_to_access_Internet_connection_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#...
- tata71 5y ago

> The police and intelligences agencies aren’t intercepting the communications of normal and petty criminals. Snowden showed otherwise - they're spying on everyone's conversations, criminal or not.

samwillis 5y ago

If they did have that capability do you think they would use it to take down and prosecute a small time drug dealer exposing what they are doing? Even exposing this capability to the Police by give them “secret” intelligence would inevitably result in the knowledge of their capabilities leaking. If they do have this capability it is only every going to be used for large scale organised crime, terrorism and state security.

ben_w 5y ago
They do have this capacity. Given that the existence of this capacity is now public, it is my belief the UK is mainly limited by a combination of selective enforcement, lack of courts and lack of police (weirdly, given their preferred “tough on crime” rhetoric, U.K. courts and police are severely underfunded right now).
- tata71 5y ago
  For the "skeptics", etc — plenty of article sources and other jump-off points here, for those that want them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_%282013%E2%80%93present%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure...
- 7952 5y ago
  It's possible that they like surveillance because it is cheaper than traditional methods.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    They might like the cost savings for evidence gathering, but there’s something ridiculous like a half million backlog of court cases in the U.K. right now so the rest of the justice system isn’t in a position to use that evidence.
rapind 5y ago
> If they do have this capability it is only every going to be used for large scale organised crime, terrorism and state security. Don’t forget political opposition / dissidents, and analysis to see what they can get away with in terms of public opinion.
dTal 5y ago
Well, I don't know about phone conversations, but every Tom, Dick and Harry gets access to web surfing history. Given that highly casual attitude - formalised into law! - I wouldn't put it past them to informally do whatever they like with the rest of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#Authorities_allowed_to_access_Internet_connection_records https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigatory_Powers_Act_2016#...
tata71 5y ago