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I didn't take it as a statement on the average Indian developer, just on the extremes, the variance. I personally have no trouble asserting that the worst Indi

I didn't take it as a statement on the average Indian developer, just on the extremes, the variance. I personally have no trouble asserting that the worst Indian developers are worse than the worst American developers without making any claim about average quality. There is a large cohort of developers in India and other third world countries whose main exposure to programming concepts is poorly taught classes with sometimes hundreds of students to an instructor for instance. That kind of thing simply does not exist in that capacity in the west. Minimum wage laws and such are also a contributor here, people of such poor skill are simply not employable in the west because the price floor for employing someone is so much higher. None of this has anything to do with race or ethnicity, only societal wealth and development inequalities.

yunohn 5y ago
- xeromal 5y ago
  I have no skin in this debate, but the companies I have worked for simply see a line item on their budget they can shrink after a product has been built. They use a small team of western devs to build and launch something and they go "Why do we need to pay this team to sit here and fix bugs??". They move the team somewhere else and hire an offshore team to manage the project. Project runs fine until something crucial needs to be fixed or a new feature needs to be added. Thing gets duct taped together until the project collapses. Repeat ad infinitum.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    > but the companies I have worked for simply see a line item on their budget they can shrink after a product has been built These Western companies are almost always led by Western people. Surely, they could use their supreme knowledge and avoid this situation, by taking the decision to not hire underpaid/unskilled developers?
    - xeromal 5y ago
      They just see dollars.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
  Have you actually worked at a company that outsources part of their workforce to India? The workload of the remaining local workers often increases considerably to make up for the mistakes, some of the work has to be redone entirely, directions have to be spoonfed to the outsourced teams to get any kind of result. This has been my experience and that of many people who have had the misfortune of experiencing that sort of outsourcing at their workplace. Western companies often take short-term counterproductive actions to decrease their costs at the cost of product quality and long-term viability, it's nothing new.
  - yunohn 5y ago
    - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
      Please refrain from ascribing a negative motive, or "casual racism", to someone with whom you disagree, and violating HN rules in the process. You are digging yourself a deep hole.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
saagarjha 5y ago
> There is a large cohort of developers in India and other third world countries whose main exposure to programming concepts is poorly taught classes with sometimes hundreds of students to an instructor for instance. That kind of thing simply does not exist in that capacity in the west. Boy do I have news for you

yunohn 5y ago

xeromal 5y ago
I have no skin in this debate, but the companies I have worked for simply see a line item on their budget they can shrink after a product has been built. They use a small team of western devs to build and launch something and they go "Why do we need to pay this team to sit here and fix bugs??". They move the team somewhere else and hire an offshore team to manage the project. Project runs fine until something crucial needs to be fixed or a new feature needs to be added. Thing gets duct taped together until the project collapses. Repeat ad infinitum.
- yunohn 5y ago
  > but the companies I have worked for simply see a line item on their budget they can shrink after a product has been built These Western companies are almost always led by Western people. Surely, they could use their supreme knowledge and avoid this situation, by taking the decision to not hire underpaid/unskilled developers?
  - xeromal 5y ago
    They just see dollars.
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
Have you actually worked at a company that outsources part of their workforce to India? The workload of the remaining local workers often increases considerably to make up for the mistakes, some of the work has to be redone entirely, directions have to be spoonfed to the outsourced teams to get any kind of result. This has been my experience and that of many people who have had the misfortune of experiencing that sort of outsourcing at their workplace. Western companies often take short-term counterproductive actions to decrease their costs at the cost of product quality and long-term viability, it's nothing new.
- yunohn 5y ago
  - OrvalWintermute 5y ago
    Please refrain from ascribing a negative motive, or "casual racism", to someone with whom you disagree, and violating HN rules in the process. You are digging yourself a deep hole.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

saagarjha 5y ago

> There is a large cohort of developers in India and other third world countries whose main exposure to programming concepts is poorly taught classes with sometimes hundreds of students to an instructor for instance. That kind of thing simply does not exist in that capacity in the west. Boy do I have news for you