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Because gender is a made up thing informed by social norms. Not all societies abide the gender binary. Gender studies are a sociological study because there is

Because gender is a made up thing informed by social norms. Not all societies abide the gender binary. Gender studies are a sociological study because there is no gender without some social structure enforcing it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society Go learn in some depth of “woke” ideology before getting fired up online about it. Learn it from “woke” people and talk with them and take it seriously and maybe next time you might bring some critical thought to the table instead of the same rote “woke people bad and anti-science” drivel.

coldtea 5y ago
>Because gender is a made up thing informed by social norms. Not all societies abide the gender binary. If you find fringe examples, and force it enough, yes. Because, thousands of years of global civilization are invalidated because of what this or that tribe does.
- uejfiweun 5y ago
  Yeah, one big problem I have with the woke movement is that they seem to advocate for policies that contradict common sense. And then they back it up by pointing to these extreme fringe examples. And then if you question their results, they tend to just get really angry and insulting, like the comment you replied to.
- nucleogenesis 5y ago
  “Woke” thinking is a critique on those “thousands of years of global civilization” and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves.
  - tonguez 5y ago
    - paulryanrogers 5y ago
      Witches with supernatural power over nature and people have yet to be proven to exist. Hermaphrodites and all manner of (a)sexuality exist in nature. Genetic analysis suggests that monogamy is a relatively modern and unnatural state for humans. Females have also been oppressed and marginalized for most of recorded history. Progress doesn't have to be defined as conformity to surviving cultural norms or binary interpretations of genetics.
  - coldtea 5y ago
    >and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. There are all kinds of outliers for anything, from child killing to incest, even consumption of shit as part of some rituals. But just because there are outliers doesn't mean that the ways that the huge majority over time and space followed are not natural way of things. The way of life of this people or that tribe, doesn't nullify the ways of billions upon billions for millenia. It just shows that it's not something like an invilatable physical law - but nobody thought it as such. Same ways that societies that parents casually would kill their children (like e.g. happens with unwanted daughrers in India) doesn't mean there's not a natural and societal imperative to care for them. Just that social custom, special interests, etc, can go beyond that. And it's not like they were "coerced" - civilizations and peoples came to the same answers and culture types time and again independently, even to the point of not having geographical connectivity with one another. >So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves. Well, bi, gay/lesbian, and trans people have existed since the dawn of time (and tons of historical figures have been). It's not like societies didn't know they exist (or had roles for them, as in ancient Greece and Rome). The norms for societies however were categorized by how the majority is (which is why they were called "norms"), and optimized for what helps reproduce societies and peoples. Why would societies organize social life based on some minority concerns (as opposed to just respect and give rights to those minorities)?
tonguez 5y ago
"Gender studies are a sociological study because there is no gender without some social structure enforcing it." Everything is a social construct, right... Really heady, intelligent stuff. Extremely interesting. Mindblowing. "Not all societies abide the gender binary." There are also a lot of societies where women are considered inferior and don't have any rights.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Are your trying to say that gender is defined exclusively by presence/absence of Y chromosome? If so should we have a gender for YY? What about those whose genes express with both male and female parts? Must such distinctions be legally regulated?
  - StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    No, we don't need laws for every edge case that occurs in .0001% of the population. Nor should we rearrange society for these edge cases or pretend they are hugely significant.
lazyeye 5y ago
Actually youre the one with the simplistic, black and white thinking so please lay off the lazy slurs. Gender has an enormous impact on the human body so the idea that the brain (the most important organ of all) is 100% neutral and unaffected by gender is simply ridiculous. To try to argue this is pure ideology. Anyone with a bit of commonsense and life experience would agree. For anyone interested Harald Eia (Norwegian comedian) has done some interesting videos on the topic. Apparently these videos were significant enough to influence govt policy in Norway https://vimeo.com/user5971760 https://vimeo.com/user5971760
boppo1 5y ago
Please see my recent post history about losing a woke friend. I have talked with the woke and taken them seriously. "Wokeness" includes progressive ideas that are important to pursue, but it is also a platform for craziness.

coldtea 5y ago

>Because gender is a made up thing informed by social norms. Not all societies abide the gender binary. If you find fringe examples, and force it enough, yes. Because, thousands of years of global civilization are invalidated because of what this or that tribe does.

uejfiweun 5y ago
Yeah, one big problem I have with the woke movement is that they seem to advocate for policies that contradict common sense. And then they back it up by pointing to these extreme fringe examples. And then if you question their results, they tend to just get really angry and insulting, like the comment you replied to.
nucleogenesis 5y ago
“Woke” thinking is a critique on those “thousands of years of global civilization” and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves.
- tonguez 5y ago
  - paulryanrogers 5y ago
    Witches with supernatural power over nature and people have yet to be proven to exist. Hermaphrodites and all manner of (a)sexuality exist in nature. Genetic analysis suggests that monogamy is a relatively modern and unnatural state for humans. Females have also been oppressed and marginalized for most of recorded history. Progress doesn't have to be defined as conformity to surviving cultural norms or binary interpretations of genetics.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >and the example I posted shows that what this “global civilization” has decided and coerced others into treating as the natural way of things just flat out isn’t. There are all kinds of outliers for anything, from child killing to incest, even consumption of shit as part of some rituals. But just because there are outliers doesn't mean that the ways that the huge majority over time and space followed are not natural way of things. The way of life of this people or that tribe, doesn't nullify the ways of billions upon billions for millenia. It just shows that it's not something like an invilatable physical law - but nobody thought it as such. Same ways that societies that parents casually would kill their children (like e.g. happens with unwanted daughrers in India) doesn't mean there's not a natural and societal imperative to care for them. Just that social custom, special interests, etc, can go beyond that. And it's not like they were "coerced" - civilizations and peoples came to the same answers and culture types time and again independently, even to the point of not having geographical connectivity with one another. >So to say something like that the gender binary is an oppressive and unjust norm in global society because trans, intersex, non-binary, gender-fluid, etc people exist does at least seem more justified when you find that it’s not the only naturally occurring way for humans to categorize themselves. Well, bi, gay/lesbian, and trans people have existed since the dawn of time (and tons of historical figures have been). It's not like societies didn't know they exist (or had roles for them, as in ancient Greece and Rome). The norms for societies however were categorized by how the majority is (which is why they were called "norms"), and optimized for what helps reproduce societies and peoples. Why would societies organize social life based on some minority concerns (as opposed to just respect and give rights to those minorities)?

tonguez 5y ago

"Gender studies are a sociological study because there is no gender without some social structure enforcing it." Everything is a social construct, right... Really heady, intelligent stuff. Extremely interesting. Mindblowing. "Not all societies abide the gender binary." There are also a lot of societies where women are considered inferior and don't have any rights.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Are your trying to say that gender is defined exclusively by presence/absence of Y chromosome? If so should we have a gender for YY? What about those whose genes express with both male and female parts? Must such distinctions be legally regulated?
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  No, we don't need laws for every edge case that occurs in .0001% of the population. Nor should we rearrange society for these edge cases or pretend they are hugely significant.

lazyeye 5y ago

Actually youre the one with the simplistic, black and white thinking so please lay off the lazy slurs. Gender has an enormous impact on the human body so the idea that the brain (the most important organ of all) is 100% neutral and unaffected by gender is simply ridiculous. To try to argue this is pure ideology. Anyone with a bit of commonsense and life experience would agree. For anyone interested Harald Eia (Norwegian comedian) has done some interesting videos on the topic. Apparently these videos were significant enough to influence govt policy in Norway https://vimeo.com/user5971760 https://vimeo.com/user5971760

boppo1 5y ago

Please see my recent post history about losing a woke friend. I have talked with the woke and taken them seriously. "Wokeness" includes progressive ideas that are important to pursue, but it is also a platform for craziness.