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It's an odd leap from electricity prices to carbon tax to basic income. And with free market as a cherry on top! There are better, more effective ideas that are

by 0x_rs 5y ago

It's an odd leap from electricity prices to carbon tax to basic income. And with free market as a cherry on top! There are better, more effective ideas that are effectively ignored rather than disrupting the economic and financial systems in place and letting "free market sort it out" as if it were ever possible in such a scenario. For one such example, immediately ban or heavily tax the sale of massively polluting vehicles such as SUVs, that as a category pollute as much as UK and Netherlands combined [0], making road circulation safer in the process too, and riding the wave of EV getting more adoption. But this won't happen, since it's a successful industry with a strong lobby behind it. And as per usual, concrete is the major culprit of CO2 emissions. That's where one could look for opportunities (such as reprocessing plants where emissions are redirected) and stricter regulations. Don't increase prices like so many in Germany feel would be the right thing to do, it only impacts those who can't afford better housing (insulation, heating efficiency). 0. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/01/suv-conquered-america-climate-change-emissions https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/01/suv-conquere...

DennisP 5y ago
It's not an odd leap at all. The core problem is that we don't pay for the externalities of fossil fuels. If we fix that, then the next question is what to do with the money, and a simple, efficient, and equitable answer is to return it to the population, equal amount per person. That's why carbon fee-and-dividend is a popular proposal with the support of a lot of economists.
lapinot 5y ago
I'm all in to ban SUV. But by doing that you're gonna threaten the masculinity and sense of identity of a large set of people. Intelligent politicians will use this to drift the debate into elite green progressists vs working class who just want a piece of the cake. To not get into this minefield lets not forget that corporations acount for a very large part of energy use and that perhaps useless transport of useless goods should be restricted, also restricting putting energy-intensive electronics in gadgets that don't need them.. There are tons of measures that can target corporations that will be easier to control, have more measurable and predictable outcomes and won't contribute to desintegrate the social cohesion and will stop the working class from getting eaten up by the far right.
throwaway6734 5y ago
why ban SUVs instead of raising the cost to operate them?
abecedarius 5y ago
> It's an odd leap from electricity prices to carbon tax to basic income. . . Don't increase prices like so many in Germany feel would be the right thing to do, it only impacts those who can't afford better housing The "odd leap" from carbon tax to basic income is exactly to address this issue of the cost to the less well-off. In a tremendously simpler, more effective, and freer way than detailed bans of particular uses of energy which also have successful industries with strong lobbies behind them.

by 0x_rs 5y ago

DennisP 5y ago

It's not an odd leap at all. The core problem is that we don't pay for the externalities of fossil fuels. If we fix that, then the next question is what to do with the money, and a simple, efficient, and equitable answer is to return it to the population, equal amount per person. That's why carbon fee-and-dividend is a popular proposal with the support of a lot of economists.

lapinot 5y ago

I'm all in to ban SUV. But by doing that you're gonna threaten the masculinity and sense of identity of a large set of people. Intelligent politicians will use this to drift the debate into elite green progressists vs working class who just want a piece of the cake. To not get into this minefield lets not forget that corporations acount for a very large part of energy use and that perhaps useless transport of useless goods should be restricted, also restricting putting energy-intensive electronics in gadgets that don't need them.. There are tons of measures that can target corporations that will be easier to control, have more measurable and predictable outcomes and won't contribute to desintegrate the social cohesion and will stop the working class from getting eaten up by the far right.

throwaway6734 5y ago

why ban SUVs instead of raising the cost to operate them?

abecedarius 5y ago

> It's an odd leap from electricity prices to carbon tax to basic income. . . Don't increase prices like so many in Germany feel would be the right thing to do, it only impacts those who can't afford better housing The "odd leap" from carbon tax to basic income is exactly to address this issue of the cost to the less well-off. In a tremendously simpler, more effective, and freer way than detailed bans of particular uses of energy which also have successful industries with strong lobbies behind them.