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Do you think hair dryers should be banned? Are clothes dryers indefensible? They all are unnecessary- just hang clothes up. And use dar more power than bitco

Do you think hair dryers should be banned? Are clothes dryers indefensible? They all are unnecessary- just hang clothes up. And use dar more power than bitcoin.

SantalBlush 5y ago
If hair dryers or clothes dryers used the proof-of-work algorithm--which is designed to be wasteful--then yes, I would ban them.
- drexlspivey 5y ago
  Actually a dryer that uses POW generated heat would be much less wasteful than just heating up air, it would produce the same amount of heat per watt and it would do something useful with it.
  - cguess 5y ago
    "useful" I take it you've never had long hair?
  - SantalBlush 5y ago
    Except that isn't true. The chip in the hair dryer would become obsolete before it ever mined a block, so your expensive hair dryer would be even more wasteful. What a ridiculous proposition.
    - drexlspivey 5y ago
      I take it you are not familiar with POW mining? You don’t have to mine a full block, you get paid for any fractional contribution. Any device that converts energy to heat can be replaced by another that converts the same amount of energy to the same amount of heat while doing POW work.
      - SantalBlush 5y ago
        Last I checked, Bitcoin didn't automatically give fractional mining rewards, and one needed to join a mining pool for that. But it doesn't matter, because the reward would be so small in this case that it wouldn't outweigh the cost of buying a chip to put in an appliance. If you think I'm wrong, then by all means mine hardware with all of your heating devices. Hell, if the money is really there, create a startup selling mining appliances and get rich. It's easy money, right? Start today.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  Honestly if we could limit mining to heating up buildings/hair/whatever, that would solve the problem for a good while. Maybe one day we'll all be on heat pumps and geothermal, but we're not quite there yet.
  - Ygg2 5y ago
    Only pump Bitcoin is good at is pump and dump.
    - lucb1e 5y ago
      There is not really an efficiency difference between creating heat from electricity with a space heater and creating heat from electricity with a computer. Not sure if you were just joking or if you simply didn't know that miners can double as heaters without loss (or if you meant something else).
      - Ygg2 5y ago
        Yeah. There is. Heaters don't cost thousands of dollars, maybe more for ASIC. Also heaters are way better at converting energy to heat, since they don't have to do the whole mining thing. And they can reach higher temperatures without frying themselves. Being a simple resistor rather than complex logical circuit. If I spend 1kWh to just warm water vs I spend some part of that 1kWh to mine bitcoin and warm water, the former will be more efficient.
        lucb1e 5y ago
        > Heaters don't cost thousands of dollars Sure but the point is that this will be earned back easily. If it didn't turn a profit then nobody would buy them today, let alone when they have an extra purpose. > they can reach higher temperatures without frying themselves Sure, we can't replace industrial processes like forging steel with mining. But residential heating requires no more than, say, 70°C which is easily within reach of any chip today. I was specifically talking about replacing something like a space heater, not a process that needs hundreds of degrees. > If I spend 1kWh to just warm water vs I spend some part of that 1kWh to mine bitcoin and warm water, the former will be more efficient. Is that so? How much then? Because I've always heard it's 1:1 for all intents and purposes. Edit: of course I have to look it up myself... https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Space-Heater-Efficiency-511/ https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Spac... Looking at the graph, it's like I said /edit. --- Note I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea, it seems ripe for abuse (running the miner also when you don't need the heat) and we'd have more chip shortage issues, but I am interested from a technological standpoint. It seemed to me like it would be an improvement if their waste heat was used.
alkonaut 5y ago
If there is a proper alternative such as LEDs were when Incandescent bulbs were banned then yes they can and should be banned. Unlike lightbulbs where the heat was waste, hair drivers are unlikely to see such alternatives though. But on principle yes, when there is an alternative the wasteful solution can be banned (or taxed, or the alternative subsidized etc)
- adregan 5y ago
  I’ll consider a heat pump dryer[0] when mine breaks, which has the potential to make the device way more efficient as the technology improves. 0: https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    I can personally recommend baldness as a highly energy efficient alternative.
foepys 5y ago
All of this is already happening. In the EU energy efficiency labels are being put on household appliances and cars. Clothes dryers have them, vacuums have them, washing machines and dishwashers, too. It's not allowed to sell things that waste more energy than it's currently technologically necessary (within reason). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label
rsynnott 5y ago
> Are clothes dryers indefensible? So the trend there has been for reduction in use in energy (particularly in Europe, where the regulators are leaning on the manufacturers). A modern heat pump dryer is far more efficient than a traditional dryer, say, and will be the dominant type in Europe soon, and probably shortly afterwards in the US. Crypto-nonsense, on the other hand, tends to use _more_ energy over time. And, frankly, if you banned hairdryers and clothes dryers, literally billions of people would be very annoyed. If you banned crypto-stuff tomorrow, certain parts of twitter would be very annoyed, and the vast majority of people would not even _notice_. Totally different political calculus.

Do you think hair dryers should be banned? Are clothes dryers indefensible? They all are unnecessary- just hang clothes up. And use dar more power than bitcoin.

SantalBlush 5y ago

If hair dryers or clothes dryers used the proof-of-work algorithm--which is designed to be wasteful--then yes, I would ban them.

drexlspivey 5y ago
Actually a dryer that uses POW generated heat would be much less wasteful than just heating up air, it would produce the same amount of heat per watt and it would do something useful with it.
- cguess 5y ago
  "useful" I take it you've never had long hair?
- SantalBlush 5y ago
  Except that isn't true. The chip in the hair dryer would become obsolete before it ever mined a block, so your expensive hair dryer would be even more wasteful. What a ridiculous proposition.
  - drexlspivey 5y ago
    I take it you are not familiar with POW mining? You don’t have to mine a full block, you get paid for any fractional contribution. Any device that converts energy to heat can be replaced by another that converts the same amount of energy to the same amount of heat while doing POW work.
    - SantalBlush 5y ago
      Last I checked, Bitcoin didn't automatically give fractional mining rewards, and one needed to join a mining pool for that. But it doesn't matter, because the reward would be so small in this case that it wouldn't outweigh the cost of buying a chip to put in an appliance. If you think I'm wrong, then by all means mine hardware with all of your heating devices. Hell, if the money is really there, create a startup selling mining appliances and get rich. It's easy money, right? Start today.
lucb1e 5y ago
Honestly if we could limit mining to heating up buildings/hair/whatever, that would solve the problem for a good while. Maybe one day we'll all be on heat pumps and geothermal, but we're not quite there yet.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  Only pump Bitcoin is good at is pump and dump.
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    There is not really an efficiency difference between creating heat from electricity with a space heater and creating heat from electricity with a computer. Not sure if you were just joking or if you simply didn't know that miners can double as heaters without loss (or if you meant something else).
    - Ygg2 5y ago
      Yeah. There is. Heaters don't cost thousands of dollars, maybe more for ASIC. Also heaters are way better at converting energy to heat, since they don't have to do the whole mining thing. And they can reach higher temperatures without frying themselves. Being a simple resistor rather than complex logical circuit. If I spend 1kWh to just warm water vs I spend some part of that 1kWh to mine bitcoin and warm water, the former will be more efficient.
      - lucb1e 5y ago
        > Heaters don't cost thousands of dollars Sure but the point is that this will be earned back easily. If it didn't turn a profit then nobody would buy them today, let alone when they have an extra purpose. > they can reach higher temperatures without frying themselves Sure, we can't replace industrial processes like forging steel with mining. But residential heating requires no more than, say, 70°C which is easily within reach of any chip today. I was specifically talking about replacing something like a space heater, not a process that needs hundreds of degrees. > If I spend 1kWh to just warm water vs I spend some part of that 1kWh to mine bitcoin and warm water, the former will be more efficient. Is that so? How much then? Because I've always heard it's 1:1 for all intents and purposes. Edit: of course I have to look it up myself... https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Space-Heater-Efficiency-511/ https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Gaming-PC-vs-Spac... Looking at the graph, it's like I said /edit. --- Note I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea, it seems ripe for abuse (running the miner also when you don't need the heat) and we'd have more chip shortage issues, but I am interested from a technological standpoint. It seemed to me like it would be an improvement if their waste heat was used.

alkonaut 5y ago

If there is a proper alternative such as LEDs were when Incandescent bulbs were banned then yes they can and should be banned. Unlike lightbulbs where the heat was waste, hair drivers are unlikely to see such alternatives though. But on principle yes, when there is an alternative the wasteful solution can be banned (or taxed, or the alternative subsidized etc)

adregan 5y ago
I’ll consider a heat pump dryer[0] when mine breaks, which has the potential to make the device way more efficient as the technology improves. 0: https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer https://www.energystar.gov/products/heat_pump_dryer
- alkonaut 5y ago
  I can personally recommend baldness as a highly energy efficient alternative.

foepys 5y ago

All of this is already happening. In the EU energy efficiency labels are being put on household appliances and cars. Clothes dryers have them, vacuums have them, washing machines and dishwashers, too. It's not allowed to sell things that waste more energy than it's currently technologically necessary (within reason). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_energy_label

rsynnott 5y ago

> Are clothes dryers indefensible? So the trend there has been for reduction in use in energy (particularly in Europe, where the regulators are leaning on the manufacturers). A modern heat pump dryer is far more efficient than a traditional dryer, say, and will be the dominant type in Europe soon, and probably shortly afterwards in the US. Crypto-nonsense, on the other hand, tends to use _more_ energy over time. And, frankly, if you banned hairdryers and clothes dryers, literally billions of people would be very annoyed. If you banned crypto-stuff tomorrow, certain parts of twitter would be very annoyed, and the vast majority of people would not even _notice_. Totally different political calculus.