4 ms·

So they become state tv? Then why have them at all? Why not call it <INSER_CURRENT_RULING_PARTY_NAME> TV?

by lampe3 5y ago

jokethrowaway 5y ago
State TVs don't necessarily represent the current party. I've seen plenty of examples of state TVs siding with the opposition in various countries. Media and journalists mostly have a left bias and when there is a right government they won't side with the government, unless the government is a de facto dictatorship and you can't go against it for safety concerns (Russia comes to mind). Not that I justify state TVs at all - I'm against all forms of taxation - but bias is not one of the issues imho.
- pydry 5y ago
  The BBC couldn't have been more blatantly favoring the incumbent party in the last election. Everything from measurably giving critics of the opposition 2x the airtime of supporters to editing footage to cut out their audience booing the prime minister. They are critical of the government sometimes (e.g. right now) but their editorial line follows what the investor owned press is saying. They havent been independently critical since their independence was curtailed after the David Kelly whitewash, IIRC. Where they lean "left" it is by placing prominence on issues like women's rights, gay rights, veganism, pronoun politics, etc. and other "leftish" issues nonthreatening to powerful interests (a form of left https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) ). They downplay strikes and most protests (including antivaxxers).
- foepys 5y ago
  > unless the government is a de facto dictatorship This is a highly naïve view that can only be said somebody who has always lived in a country with free press. Look at Poland, not a dictatorship but increasingly hostile to government critical journalists. > I'm against all forms of taxation How do you propose to fund schools, streets, police, military, and fire services? Paying for them individually will not work unless you mean insurances which then are basically a tax.
- johnday 5y ago
  > Media and journalists mostly have a left bias This is an astonishing comment. Can you justify it?
  - iso1210 5y ago
    In the terms of UK, "left bias" means "not tory/ukip", and the majority of the UK thus has a "left bias" Given that journalists are mostly aged between 25 and say 60, have a degree, and fit in the "AB" group, you pump it into https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/12/how-britain-voted-and-why-my-2019-general-election-post-vote-poll/ https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/12/how-britain-voted-and-... And you find a large majority will be "not tory" all things being equal.
    - johnday 5y ago
      Sure, but there's a meaningful difference between "left leaning" and "left biased", is there not? It seems entirely possible for a person sympathetic to the left to create content which is unbiased, or even biased in the other direction, based on external pressures. The claim made wasn't that most journalists lean left, which may or may not be true (I think your assessment is probably a decent first approximation); but that "most media and journalists have a left bias", which is so far from being true in the UK that I suspect that GGP may not be arguing with facts in mind.
      - iso1210 5y ago
        I read it as their inherent unconscious bias will be left leaning, and they will attempt to adjust for that in their output (certainly I've spoken to journalists based in Israel, and their views over a beer in the American Colony are very different to the considered ones they say on air)

So they become state tv? Then why have them at all? Why not call it <INSER_CURRENT_RULING_PARTY_NAME> TV?

by lampe3 5y ago

So they become state tv? Then why have them at all? Why not call it <INSER_CURRENT_RULING_PARTY_NAME> TV?

State TVs don't necessarily represent the current party. I've seen plenty of examples of state TVs siding with the opposition in various countries. Media and journalists mostly have a left bias and when there is a right government they won't side with the government, unless the government is a de facto dictatorship and you can't go against it for safety concerns (Russia comes to mind). Not that I justify state TVs at all - I'm against all forms of taxation - but bias is not one of the issues imho.

pydry 5y ago
The BBC couldn't have been more blatantly favoring the incumbent party in the last election. Everything from measurably giving critics of the opposition 2x the airtime of supporters to editing footage to cut out their audience booing the prime minister. They are critical of the government sometimes (e.g. right now) but their editorial line follows what the investor owned press is saying. They havent been independently critical since their independence was curtailed after the David Kelly whitewash, IIRC. Where they lean "left" it is by placing prominence on issues like women's rights, gay rights, veganism, pronoun politics, etc. and other "leftish" issues nonthreatening to powerful interests (a form of left https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recuperation_(politics) ). They downplay strikes and most protests (including antivaxxers).
foepys 5y ago
> unless the government is a de facto dictatorship This is a highly naïve view that can only be said somebody who has always lived in a country with free press. Look at Poland, not a dictatorship but increasingly hostile to government critical journalists. > I'm against all forms of taxation How do you propose to fund schools, streets, police, military, and fire services? Paying for them individually will not work unless you mean insurances which then are basically a tax.
johnday 5y ago
> Media and journalists mostly have a left bias This is an astonishing comment. Can you justify it?
- iso1210 5y ago
  In the terms of UK, "left bias" means "not tory/ukip", and the majority of the UK thus has a "left bias" Given that journalists are mostly aged between 25 and say 60, have a degree, and fit in the "AB" group, you pump it into https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/12/how-britain-voted-and-why-my-2019-general-election-post-vote-poll/ https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/12/how-britain-voted-and-... And you find a large majority will be "not tory" all things being equal.
  - johnday 5y ago
    Sure, but there's a meaningful difference between "left leaning" and "left biased", is there not? It seems entirely possible for a person sympathetic to the left to create content which is unbiased, or even biased in the other direction, based on external pressures. The claim made wasn't that most journalists lean left, which may or may not be true (I think your assessment is probably a decent first approximation); but that "most media and journalists have a left bias", which is so far from being true in the UK that I suspect that GGP may not be arguing with facts in mind.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      I read it as their inherent unconscious bias will be left leaning, and they will attempt to adjust for that in their output (certainly I've spoken to journalists based in Israel, and their views over a beer in the American Colony are very different to the considered ones they say on air)