4 ms·

And that's the problem China and governments banning it have. There is no easy way to force someone to give it up, since it can't be taken by force.

arlcode 5y ago
Uuuh the large scale mining operations can easily be detected through their power use. Then warrants can be served equipment can be confiscated and people be put in front of a judge
lucb1e 5y ago
> There is no easy way to force someone to give it up Isn't it about as difficult as asking someone for their cash? People aren't happy to part with it, but the $5 xkcd wrench usually does it. You can hide a paper wallet or storage medium in a sock at a friend's house, but that's no different from cash. Cash is also easy to spend anonymously; try hiding a bitcoin transaction from others or make its traces vanish to avoid problems later. I don't foresee many issues with banning bitcoin at all, it's more of a political problem.
- xxs 5y ago
  Cash is highly regulated, in a lot of EU countries it's not even possible to spend too much cash in a shop in a single transaction. Cash transactions over XXX amount (few thousands) require identity and they have to be reported by the seller as well. Carrying over 10k euro in cash has to be declared during air travel too.
ajross 5y ago
That argument runs afoul of: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ In the real world refusal to pay a fine or surrender an item is itself a crime and punishable with state power. You're right that the government can't extract crypto assets without the consent of those controlling the relevant keys. You're forgetting the depth of ability of a government to compel consent.
- nefitty 5y ago
  This simple fact dismantles a pillar of crypto evangelism. No, you, can't exist outside of society and its influence, even if your "money" is digital.
- Zerverus 5y ago
  This. On top of it all the evidence needed to charge you for years to come is conveniently left on the immutable blockchain. These are just bullshit libertarian feel good narratives that are as realistic as people declaring themselves sovereign citizens
quickthrowman 5y ago
“I remand you to the custody of the prison system until you reveal your Bitcoin wallet passphrase.” Now the detainee gets to choose between remaining in prison or giving up their assets.
- xxs 5y ago
  >in prison or giving up their assets. This is too much a TV show story. Since the state doesn't really know how much bitcoins they have, the key owner can share only a fraction of their wallets (and they can have as many wallets as they please). Without crypto currency being regulated, state can seize the physical assets but getting all the bitcoins is highly unlikely.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Everyone who owns cryptocurrency is cashing out to dollars, euros RMB etc because you can't use memecoins to buy a Lamborghini. That is cryptocurrency's point of failure.
- politician 5y ago
  No, but you use it to exchange titles at low cost with a global market.
Zerverus 5y ago
China banned it for urgent energy reasons. Taxing it is easy, tax the transaction which is public on the blockchain. Institute KYC rules and enforce them, punishing anyone who holds an anonymous wallet. Bitcoin isn’t some magical thing; the old crowbars reverse engineering works even better on it since all transactions are public on the blockchain forever.

arlcode 5y ago

Uuuh the large scale mining operations can easily be detected through their power use. Then warrants can be served equipment can be confiscated and people be put in front of a judge

lucb1e 5y ago

> There is no easy way to force someone to give it up Isn't it about as difficult as asking someone for their cash? People aren't happy to part with it, but the $5 xkcd wrench usually does it. You can hide a paper wallet or storage medium in a sock at a friend's house, but that's no different from cash. Cash is also easy to spend anonymously; try hiding a bitcoin transaction from others or make its traces vanish to avoid problems later. I don't foresee many issues with banning bitcoin at all, it's more of a political problem.

xxs 5y ago
Cash is highly regulated, in a lot of EU countries it's not even possible to spend too much cash in a shop in a single transaction. Cash transactions over XXX amount (few thousands) require identity and they have to be reported by the seller as well. Carrying over 10k euro in cash has to be declared during air travel too.

ajross 5y ago

That argument runs afoul of: https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ In the real world refusal to pay a fine or surrender an item is itself a crime and punishable with state power. You're right that the government can't extract crypto assets without the consent of those controlling the relevant keys. You're forgetting the depth of ability of a government to compel consent.

nefitty 5y ago
This simple fact dismantles a pillar of crypto evangelism. No, you, can't exist outside of society and its influence, even if your "money" is digital.
Zerverus 5y ago
This. On top of it all the evidence needed to charge you for years to come is conveniently left on the immutable blockchain. These are just bullshit libertarian feel good narratives that are as realistic as people declaring themselves sovereign citizens

quickthrowman 5y ago

“I remand you to the custody of the prison system until you reveal your Bitcoin wallet passphrase.” Now the detainee gets to choose between remaining in prison or giving up their assets.

xxs 5y ago
>in prison or giving up their assets. This is too much a TV show story. Since the state doesn't really know how much bitcoins they have, the key owner can share only a fraction of their wallets (and they can have as many wallets as they please). Without crypto currency being regulated, state can seize the physical assets but getting all the bitcoins is highly unlikely.

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Everyone who owns cryptocurrency is cashing out to dollars, euros RMB etc because you can't use memecoins to buy a Lamborghini. That is cryptocurrency's point of failure.

politician 5y ago
No, but you use it to exchange titles at low cost with a global market.

Zerverus 5y ago

China banned it for urgent energy reasons. Taxing it is easy, tax the transaction which is public on the blockchain. Institute KYC rules and enforce them, punishing anyone who holds an anonymous wallet. Bitcoin isn’t some magical thing; the old crowbars reverse engineering works even better on it since all transactions are public on the blockchain forever.