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>What part of that successful people do? 1. they are rarely stupid 2. they often sleep a lot less 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #

>What part of that successful people do? 1. they are rarely stupid 2. they often sleep a lot less 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) 6. they are healthier in general (related to all of the above) I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility, who are asleep 16 hours a day, constantly depressed and demotivated and break down at the first sight of adversity. Do you?

WalterBright 5y ago
My productivity drops drastically if I don't get enough sleep.
- caddemon 5y ago
  Yeah, seriously! Besides my own personal productivity, I also noticed in college that the amount of sleep my dormmates got correlated well with academic success, moreso than class attendance did. Of course it could be that those who struggled just had to stay up later, but I'm pretty convinced there was a terrible feedback loop in play.
klausjensen 5y ago
I looked up Hyperthymic/hyperthymia, so you don't have to...: Hyperthymic temperament, or hyperthymia ... is a proposed personality type characterized by an exceptionally, or in some cases, abnormally positive mood and disposition. It is generally defined by increased energy, vividness and enthusiasm for life activities, as opposed to dysthymia. (from wikipedia)
lampe3 5y ago
> 1. they are rarely stupid not all of them but the tendency: a) Influencer b) pornstars c) tv stars > 2. they often sleep a lot less > 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). I asked that all of my bosses they do sleep as much as I or any other healthy person. > 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). Internal and External motivation is a thing but sure a depressed person will probably be not successful. It does not mean that Internal motivated person will be successful or that it even helps. I would like to see some evidence for that. > 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) Again some evidence that this is a general treat would be nice. > 6. they are healthier in general Not really the heart attack risk in C Level or management or related positions is very high. We just don't talk about dead people anymore. Steve Jobs is the outlier here. > I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility, who are asleep 16 hours a day, constantly depressed and demotivated and break down at the first sight of adversity. Because they are either dead or don't want to be know or we just don't want to talk about them because they don't fit our perfect world view. Also the person you are describing needs help a lot of it and I don't see how this proves that the opposite would lead to success.
treyfitty 5y ago
This is the dumbest thing I read in a while. It doesn’t account for survivor bias. How many people met all those criteria and failed? It could be that for every million with those characteristics, only 1 succeeded.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  The list doesn't appear to be meant as a formula free of bias, rather just commonalities. So folks who lack those traits may be statistically less likely to succeed. Interesting that the criteria come from being born that way and/or the outcome of a low stress and loving childhood. Neither of which a person can control for themselves.
- vinay427 5y ago
  If you look at the GP comment they replied to (quote below), it‘s fairly clear that they didn’t mean this to be a recipe that will make you successful, but simply commonalities that may make success more likely. > Doing what successful people do increases your odds of success.
Arisaka1 5y ago
Sleeping less doesn't mean much if you're born in a remote village in Africa or China where clean water is a luxury, in a toxic family where not being beaten up and having a stable psyche is a requirement if you want to act out your potential at school. You don't choose whether you're depressed or not. It's absurd to me that in 2022 you're saying that learning that successful people are not depressed is an actionable advice that people can learn from.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Surprise, you don't get to choose anything at all on that list.
  - buran77 5y ago
    You didn't mention what might be the most important things successful people have to get them there: a good support network of other successful people, and a good safety net to catch them if they fail (sometimes the same network). I think you can scratch away everything on that list and the network (family, friends, colleagues, etc.) could still help you be successful. It's like a game where some people get a copy with infinite save/load and helper bots, while others get the raw version where their subscription ends after the first failure. So if I told you "being a successful gamer is about having the patience to load again and again until you manage to hit your target" you'd think I'm crazy, your copy already deactivated after the first missed shot. The starting conditions are so varied that choosing to define successful people just by looking at the person and nothing else is more of a personality cult exercise than an objectively useful one [0]. And it's no surprise, most successful people love to make that success only about themselves. [0] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilswo...
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      I don’t disagree. But one could build a network etc etc. Winning genetic lottery is a lot less debatable, and really was just a red herring to point out the role her majesty the Fortune plays in our lives from even before we are born. We don’t get to choose the hand we must play.
microtherion 5y ago
I can think of at least one highly successful person (Creator of several household name open source projects), who has dealt with rather serious chronic health conditions throughout their life. Won't name names since it's a somewhat sensitive subject. For an example from the business world that is a matter of public record, Steve Jobs was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer in 2003 and he still had an active role in the development of the iPhone and iPad before eventually dying in 2011.
pdimitar 5y ago
> 1. they are rarely stupid I know at least 5 people who are fairly stupid but were at the right place, the right evening, the right dinner and spoke with the right people. They all retired at 35 with tens of millions after taxes. They can coast on these savings for 10 years if they live lavishly and if they close all their businesses tomorrow. They weren't stupid in 2-3 regards, yeah. For everything else that I chatted with them I'd call them stupid and be very confident in my opinion. IQ is only important in the reverse direction: i.e. if it's below a certain minimum. From one point and on, whether you are e.g. at 100 or 170 doesn't matter much. > 2. they often sleep a lot less It's surprising that in 2022 we're still romanticizing this. Even young and energetic people can be severely debilitated by maintaining 4-5 hours of sleep a day for some mere 3 to 6 months (and I've experienced this myself, and I've seen it in dozens of acquaintances and colleagues). The most resilient person to lack of sleep I've met is myself. I maintained a crazy sleep schedule AND was unhealthy for 13 or so years. Eventually it catches up with you. I actually understood my cognition got impaired one day, panicked, then took deep breaths and start putting myself back on track. This was 6-9 months ago and from then on I keep getting better and better at my job (again) and I heal gradually. "Sleep less"... just no. This meme should die for good. Seems that you bought the entrepreneur propaganda books. > 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). It helps if you're born that way but you can also cultivate it with diet and exercise. Or, you can be cautious and strategic and still succeed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) Same as sleep, this is very temporary. Be exposed to stress and uncertainty for a year and it will break you. You might be confusing "stressful situations because you might actually live under a bridge and feed off of trash cans if you keep failing" with "uncertain situations in which the person thrives, because they are a gambler by heart, but they have a safety net or investors" here. --- Sure chronic depression doesn't help but you should also account for the fact that too many failures can and do lead to depression as well. Most success advice completely ignores survivor bias and that's a shame because it ruins the chances of a good quality discussion.
- vimy 5y ago
  Successful people often need less sleep than what’s considered the norm. 5 hours for them is 8 hours for most people. Same with stress, stress tolerance is above the norm. They’ve won the genetic lottery. Not every successful person has these traits of course. But enough to see a pattern.
burntoutfire 5y ago
Actually, a lot of successful artists and thinkers were pretty ill and/or depressed - e.g. Nietzsche, Proust.
PeterisP 5y ago
There are many very successful people with chronic mental health conditions that at times impair their cognition to the point of debility. Like, re-read your comment with Simone Biles in mind, who is arguably the most successful gymnast ever but did spend extensive time constantly sleeping while depressed and demotivated and broken down. Quoting her, "At one point I slept so much because, for me, it was the closest thing to death without harming myself. It was an escape from all of my thoughts, from the world, from what I was dealing with." You can't deny that Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Cobain, Virginia Woolf, Robin Williams, Marylin Monroe, Chester Bennington, Ernest Hemmingway and many others were successful despite their struggles, and those are just those for whom those internal struggles resulted in something obvious to the public. For physical issues, there's Avicii who got quite successful while touring with many serious health problems. In the field of business we have to remember that for currently active entrepreneurs there are strong incentives to hide any issues (e.g. Elon Musk has years earlier admitted struggles with depression and/or bipolar disorder, but IMHO we won't get reliable information about their extent until after he retires or dies), but there are earlier examples like Ted Turner, founder of CNN; and of course there's the famous case of Aaron Swartz as a cofounder of Reddit. Here's a study https://www.michaelafreemanmd.com/Research_files/Are%20Entrepreneurs%20Touched%20with%20Fire%20(pre-pub%20n)%204-17-15.pdf https://www.michaelafreemanmd.com/Research_files/Are%20Entre... showing that entrepreneurs have a higher rate of mental health conditions than the general public. So I believe that your argument is based on false expectations.
- GameOfFrowns 5y ago
ganbatekudasai 5y ago
I sleep a lot. A lot. Sleeping more than 12 hours is no problem for me. Unsurprisingly, I'm also rather hypothymiac (it runs in the family). I consider myself very successful, and others do as well. More importantly, I also never felt that my large amount of sleep was working against me in that. Almost the opposite actually, as I can "sleep off" depression, minor sicknesses, general bad mood etc.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  What’s very successful for you? I’ve described the list because I’ve met several people like that. All but one were self made billionaires in traditional business, none of that VC unicorn nonsense. 5 hours of sleep per day, nearly 100% performance during the entire 19 hours, in some cases - for 20 years straight, under enormous stress.
ModernMech 5y ago
> I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility You'd be surprised to find out how many highly successful creatives are bipolar. Britney Spears for instance infamously went through a very public manic episode a number of years ago. Bipolar disorder definitely fits the bill for a "chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility".

WalterBright 5y ago

My productivity drops drastically if I don't get enough sleep.

caddemon 5y ago
Yeah, seriously! Besides my own personal productivity, I also noticed in college that the amount of sleep my dormmates got correlated well with academic success, moreso than class attendance did. Of course it could be that those who struggled just had to stay up later, but I'm pretty convinced there was a terrible feedback loop in play.

klausjensen 5y ago

I looked up Hyperthymic/hyperthymia, so you don't have to...: Hyperthymic temperament, or hyperthymia ... is a proposed personality type characterized by an exceptionally, or in some cases, abnormally positive mood and disposition. It is generally defined by increased energy, vividness and enthusiasm for life activities, as opposed to dysthymia. (from wikipedia)

lampe3 5y ago

> 1. they are rarely stupid not all of them but the tendency: a) Influencer b) pornstars c) tv stars > 2. they often sleep a lot less > 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). I asked that all of my bosses they do sleep as much as I or any other healthy person. > 4. they produce unlimited amounts of self-generated morale (related to #3). Internal and External motivation is a thing but sure a depressed person will probably be not successful. It does not mean that Internal motivated person will be successful or that it even helps. I would like to see some evidence for that. > 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) Again some evidence that this is a general treat would be nice. > 6. they are healthier in general Not really the heart attack risk in C Level or management or related positions is very high. We just don't talk about dead people anymore. Steve Jobs is the outlier here. > I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility, who are asleep 16 hours a day, constantly depressed and demotivated and break down at the first sight of adversity. Because they are either dead or don't want to be know or we just don't want to talk about them because they don't fit our perfect world view. Also the person you are describing needs help a lot of it and I don't see how this proves that the opposite would lead to success.

treyfitty 5y ago

This is the dumbest thing I read in a while. It doesn’t account for survivor bias. How many people met all those criteria and failed? It could be that for every million with those characteristics, only 1 succeeded.

inter_netuser 5y ago
paulryanrogers 5y ago
The list doesn't appear to be meant as a formula free of bias, rather just commonalities. So folks who lack those traits may be statistically less likely to succeed. Interesting that the criteria come from being born that way and/or the outcome of a low stress and loving childhood. Neither of which a person can control for themselves.
vinay427 5y ago
If you look at the GP comment they replied to (quote below), it‘s fairly clear that they didn’t mean this to be a recipe that will make you successful, but simply commonalities that may make success more likely. > Doing what successful people do increases your odds of success.

Arisaka1 5y ago

Sleeping less doesn't mean much if you're born in a remote village in Africa or China where clean water is a luxury, in a toxic family where not being beaten up and having a stable psyche is a requirement if you want to act out your potential at school. You don't choose whether you're depressed or not. It's absurd to me that in 2022 you're saying that learning that successful people are not depressed is an actionable advice that people can learn from.

inter_netuser 5y ago
Surprise, you don't get to choose anything at all on that list.
- buran77 5y ago
  You didn't mention what might be the most important things successful people have to get them there: a good support network of other successful people, and a good safety net to catch them if they fail (sometimes the same network). I think you can scratch away everything on that list and the network (family, friends, colleagues, etc.) could still help you be successful. It's like a game where some people get a copy with infinite save/load and helper bots, while others get the raw version where their subscription ends after the first failure. So if I told you "being a successful gamer is about having the patience to load again and again until you manage to hit your target" you'd think I'm crazy, your copy already deactivated after the first missed shot. The starting conditions are so varied that choosing to define successful people just by looking at the person and nothing else is more of a personality cult exercise than an objectively useful one [0]. And it's no surprise, most successful people love to make that success only about themselves. [0] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/the-wireless/373065/the-pencilswo...
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    I don’t disagree. But one could build a network etc etc. Winning genetic lottery is a lot less debatable, and really was just a red herring to point out the role her majesty the Fortune plays in our lives from even before we are born. We don’t get to choose the hand we must play.

microtherion 5y ago

I can think of at least one highly successful person (Creator of several household name open source projects), who has dealt with rather serious chronic health conditions throughout their life. Won't name names since it's a somewhat sensitive subject. For an example from the business world that is a matter of public record, Steve Jobs was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer in 2003 and he still had an active role in the development of the iPhone and iPad before eventually dying in 2011.

pdimitar 5y ago

> 1. they are rarely stupid I know at least 5 people who are fairly stupid but were at the right place, the right evening, the right dinner and spoke with the right people. They all retired at 35 with tens of millions after taxes. They can coast on these savings for 10 years if they live lavishly and if they close all their businesses tomorrow. They weren't stupid in 2-3 regards, yeah. For everything else that I chatted with them I'd call them stupid and be very confident in my opinion. IQ is only important in the reverse direction: i.e. if it's below a certain minimum. From one point and on, whether you are e.g. at 100 or 170 doesn't matter much. > 2. they often sleep a lot less It's surprising that in 2022 we're still romanticizing this. Even young and energetic people can be severely debilitated by maintaining 4-5 hours of sleep a day for some mere 3 to 6 months (and I've experienced this myself, and I've seen it in dozens of acquaintances and colleagues). The most resilient person to lack of sleep I've met is myself. I maintained a crazy sleep schedule AND was unhealthy for 13 or so years. Eventually it catches up with you. I actually understood my cognition got impaired one day, panicked, then took deep breaths and start putting myself back on track. This was 6-9 months ago and from then on I keep getting better and better at my job (again) and I heal gradually. "Sleep less"... just no. This meme should die for good. Seems that you bought the entrepreneur propaganda books. > 3. they more often than not are hyperthymiacs (related to #2). It helps if you're born that way but you can also cultivate it with diet and exercise. Or, you can be cautious and strategic and still succeed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > 5. they are stress tolerant (related to #4) Same as sleep, this is very temporary. Be exposed to stress and uncertainty for a year and it will break you. You might be confusing "stressful situations because you might actually live under a bridge and feed off of trash cans if you keep failing" with "uncertain situations in which the person thrives, because they are a gambler by heart, but they have a safety net or investors" here. --- Sure chronic depression doesn't help but you should also account for the fact that too many failures can and do lead to depression as well. Most success advice completely ignores survivor bias and that's a shame because it ruins the chances of a good quality discussion.

vimy 5y ago
Successful people often need less sleep than what’s considered the norm. 5 hours for them is 8 hours for most people. Same with stress, stress tolerance is above the norm. They’ve won the genetic lottery. Not every successful person has these traits of course. But enough to see a pattern.

burntoutfire 5y ago

Actually, a lot of successful artists and thinkers were pretty ill and/or depressed - e.g. Nietzsche, Proust.

PeterisP 5y ago

There are many very successful people with chronic mental health conditions that at times impair their cognition to the point of debility. Like, re-read your comment with Simone Biles in mind, who is arguably the most successful gymnast ever but did spend extensive time constantly sleeping while depressed and demotivated and broken down. Quoting her, "At one point I slept so much because, for me, it was the closest thing to death without harming myself. It was an escape from all of my thoughts, from the world, from what I was dealing with." You can't deny that Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Cobain, Virginia Woolf, Robin Williams, Marylin Monroe, Chester Bennington, Ernest Hemmingway and many others were successful despite their struggles, and those are just those for whom those internal struggles resulted in something obvious to the public. For physical issues, there's Avicii who got quite successful while touring with many serious health problems. In the field of business we have to remember that for currently active entrepreneurs there are strong incentives to hide any issues (e.g. Elon Musk has years earlier admitted struggles with depression and/or bipolar disorder, but IMHO we won't get reliable information about their extent until after he retires or dies), but there are earlier examples like Ted Turner, founder of CNN; and of course there's the famous case of Aaron Swartz as a cofounder of Reddit. Here's a study https://www.michaelafreemanmd.com/Research_files/Are%20Entrepreneurs%20Touched%20with%20Fire%20(pre-pub%20n)%204-17-15.pdf https://www.michaelafreemanmd.com/Research_files/Are%20Entre... showing that entrepreneurs have a higher rate of mental health conditions than the general public. So I believe that your argument is based on false expectations.

GameOfFrowns 5y ago

ganbatekudasai 5y ago

I sleep a lot. A lot. Sleeping more than 12 hours is no problem for me. Unsurprisingly, I'm also rather hypothymiac (it runs in the family). I consider myself very successful, and others do as well. More importantly, I also never felt that my large amount of sleep was working against me in that. Almost the opposite actually, as I can "sleep off" depression, minor sicknesses, general bad mood etc.

inter_netuser 5y ago
What’s very successful for you? I’ve described the list because I’ve met several people like that. All but one were self made billionaires in traditional business, none of that VC unicorn nonsense. 5 hours of sleep per day, nearly 100% performance during the entire 19 hours, in some cases - for 20 years straight, under enormous stress.

ModernMech 5y ago

> I don't know very many successful people with numerous chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility You'd be surprised to find out how many highly successful creatives are bipolar. Britney Spears for instance infamously went through a very public manic episode a number of years ago. Bipolar disorder definitely fits the bill for a "chronic health conditions that impair their cognition to the point of debility".