4 ms·

They can be. But they're not. There is nothing draconian about a rule requiring vaccination for a disease responsible for a global pandemic with the 5th highes

They can be. But they're not. There is nothing draconian about a rule requiring vaccination for a disease responsible for a global pandemic with the 5th highest death toll in human history. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics#By_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics#By_death_tol...

ls15 5y ago
It is draconian if you cannot show that the vaccines are working against transmission. You need to vaccinate about 80-120 people to prevent one more covid case and that is based on old data[0], pre-Delta and pre-Omicron. Now the efficacy is worse. It is draconian if you cannot show that the rules are not arbitrary. There was another player at the court who was playing while having covid symptoms[1], but this one was fine, because he was playing by the rules. [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5... [1] https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/australian-open/2022/bernard-tomic-tests-positive-for-covid-two-days-after-claiming-mid-match-that-he-was-suffering-from-_sto8707090/story.shtml https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/australian-open/2022/bernar...
- sofixa 5y ago
  Transmission isn't the only thing to optimise for - hospitalisations, which were and remain the main limit to how much Covid we can handle, are significantly lowered by vaccination. That's a giant win whatever way you look at it.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > optimise for - hospitalisations, which were and remain the main limit to how much Covid we can handle, are significantly lowered by vaccination. There are other things that lower that risk significantly, such as having recovered from covid previously, having no co-morbidities, healthy diet, being young, having a sufficient vitamin D level and many more. Why does everyone need to get the same medical treatment? Not all people are the same. The risk to get myocarditis from the mRNA vaccine is higher than getting it from covid for males under 40. This is a large share of a population.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > The risk to get myocarditis from the mRNA vaccine is higher than getting it from covid for males under 40 Citation required. That's been debunked IIRC. And even if it were true, myocarditis isn't the only thing a male under 40 can get as a negative effect from Covid.
      - ls15 5y ago
        > Citation required. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29697780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29697780 I am not aware of any debunking yet. > myocarditis isn't the only thing a male under 40 can get as a negative effect from Covid. This is true, and the vaccine has some potential to mitigate that, but there are other factors that need to be considered too, such as trying to keep laws undraconian.
apple4ever 5y ago
It is when that rule completely ignores natural immunity. It is illogical and unscientific. I will never understand why natural immunity continues to be ignored in these discussions.
- deanCommie 5y ago
  There have been multiple new variants. Immunity from one does not help with others. People have been getting covid multiple times. (eg. Glenn Beck).
  - tim333 5y ago
    The vaccines were also developed for a previous variant and work so so with Omicon.

ls15 5y ago

It is draconian if you cannot show that the vaccines are working against transmission. You need to vaccinate about 80-120 people to prevent one more covid case and that is based on old data[0], pre-Delta and pre-Omicron. Now the efficacy is worse. It is draconian if you cannot show that the rules are not arbitrary. There was another player at the court who was playing while having covid symptoms[1], but this one was fine, because he was playing by the rules. [0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5... [1] https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/australian-open/2022/bernard-tomic-tests-positive-for-covid-two-days-after-claiming-mid-match-that-he-was-suffering-from-_sto8707090/story.shtml https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/australian-open/2022/bernar...

sofixa 5y ago
Transmission isn't the only thing to optimise for - hospitalisations, which were and remain the main limit to how much Covid we can handle, are significantly lowered by vaccination. That's a giant win whatever way you look at it.
- ls15 5y ago
  > optimise for - hospitalisations, which were and remain the main limit to how much Covid we can handle, are significantly lowered by vaccination. There are other things that lower that risk significantly, such as having recovered from covid previously, having no co-morbidities, healthy diet, being young, having a sufficient vitamin D level and many more. Why does everyone need to get the same medical treatment? Not all people are the same. The risk to get myocarditis from the mRNA vaccine is higher than getting it from covid for males under 40. This is a large share of a population.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > The risk to get myocarditis from the mRNA vaccine is higher than getting it from covid for males under 40 Citation required. That's been debunked IIRC. And even if it were true, myocarditis isn't the only thing a male under 40 can get as a negative effect from Covid.
    - ls15 5y ago
      > Citation required. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29697780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29697780 I am not aware of any debunking yet. > myocarditis isn't the only thing a male under 40 can get as a negative effect from Covid. This is true, and the vaccine has some potential to mitigate that, but there are other factors that need to be considered too, such as trying to keep laws undraconian.

apple4ever 5y ago

It is when that rule completely ignores natural immunity. It is illogical and unscientific. I will never understand why natural immunity continues to be ignored in these discussions.

deanCommie 5y ago
There have been multiple new variants. Immunity from one does not help with others. People have been getting covid multiple times. (eg. Glenn Beck).
- tim333 5y ago
  The vaccines were also developed for a previous variant and work so so with Omicon.