4 ms·

I used to work in the oilfield. We had to be clean shaven on site because in an emergency we may be required to use masks, and your face needs to be clean shav

I used to work in the oilfield. We had to be clean shaven on site because in an emergency we may be required to use masks, and your face needs to be clean shaven to form a seal. That's how things are done when there is a real safety risk. The lack of CDC guidance on this point speaks volumes as to how serious this is.

ceejayoz 5y ago
A perfect seal is somewhat more important in that situation than going to the grocery store.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95. When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments. Firefighters and other emergency responders are generally required to shave for this reason.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95. Yes. A little stubble, less so. (I'd wager it's still fairly effective at keeping the wearer's germs in, though.) > When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments. Sure, but as with the oil worker example, that's a slightly different scenario than a member of the general public going to the grocery store.
  - 04rob 5y ago
    This has been studied. A beard does compromise the seal, but to a lesser extent on n95s than in other masks: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/
    - NDizzle 5y ago
      0 to 10mm!? Some study. That’s barely a beard. Loses 40% effectivenes at 10mm.
      - goodside 5y ago
        No, that's the figure for KF94 and KN95 masks. For N95s it's only about a 20% loss of FFE.
the_svd_doctor 5y ago
They kind of do https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effect... Also https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017...
- fallingknife 5y ago
  Yeah, I know they are aware of the concept. It's just that they are mandating masks, but barely mentioning the facial hair issue outside of a few publications that, lets face it, basically nobody reads. It just screams politics over actual safety.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    We can barely get folks to wear the things in the first place, let alone over the nose. You want the CDC to add "oh and you have to shave your beard off" to the mix? Really?
    - fallingknife 5y ago
      If you're not ready to require that the masks be effective, why require them at all?
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        Because effectiveness is not binary.
  - tasha0663 5y ago
    When authorities are spot-checking your mask fit you run the risking of crossing into "you're under arrest because we don't like your face" territory.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    given the hysteric reaction of the American public to mask mandates I don't want to know what happens if the government tells people to shave. It sure does smell of politics but not from the CDCs side, they just have to make guidelines under consideration of how the public reacts Within 10 minutes you'd probably have discrimination claims from angry hipsters, barbershops and a dozen different religious groups or something.
dredmorbius 5y ago
The CDC have you covered: Facial Hairstyles and Filtering Facepiece Respirators https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/FacialHairWmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/FacialHairWmask11282017...
nescioquid 5y ago
> The lack of CDC guidance on this point speaks volumes as to how serious this is. It speaks volumes, at least. Heckuva job, Brownie. I'm still flummoxed by Fauci's -- let's call it -- equivocation about masks being pointless, for which he later apologized and explained he was trying to conserve the supply of N95s for medical personnel. There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play. If they really believed it were that serious, I hardly trust they'd do any more than cover their assess.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  His boss at the time did have him on a leash.
- tasha0663 5y ago
  > There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play. When they decided they had to skip Xi variant, it was made pretty clear that the patricians have no intention of leveling with the plebs again.
jorblumesea 5y ago
It speaks to the politics of it more than the science.

ceejayoz 5y ago

A perfect seal is somewhat more important in that situation than going to the grocery store.

spicybright 5y ago
Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95. When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments. Firefighters and other emergency responders are generally required to shave for this reason.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Beards and thick facial hair severely compromises the effectiveness of an N95. Yes. A little stubble, less so. (I'd wager it's still fairly effective at keeping the wearer's germs in, though.) > When I was an EMT we got fitted for them in case we had to transport patients with tuberculosis or other aliments. Sure, but as with the oil worker example, that's a slightly different scenario than a member of the general public going to the grocery store.
- 04rob 5y ago
  This has been studied. A beard does compromise the seal, but to a lesser extent on n95s than in other masks: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34006963/
  - NDizzle 5y ago
    0 to 10mm!? Some study. That’s barely a beard. Loses 40% effectivenes at 10mm.
    - goodside 5y ago
      No, that's the figure for KF94 and KN95 masks. For N95s it's only about a 20% loss of FFE.

the_svd_doctor 5y ago

They kind of do https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effective-masks.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/effect... Also https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/facialhairwmask11282017...

fallingknife 5y ago
Yeah, I know they are aware of the concept. It's just that they are mandating masks, but barely mentioning the facial hair issue outside of a few publications that, lets face it, basically nobody reads. It just screams politics over actual safety.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  We can barely get folks to wear the things in the first place, let alone over the nose. You want the CDC to add "oh and you have to shave your beard off" to the mix? Really?
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    If you're not ready to require that the masks be effective, why require them at all?
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      Because effectiveness is not binary.
- tasha0663 5y ago
  When authorities are spot-checking your mask fit you run the risking of crossing into "you're under arrest because we don't like your face" territory.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  given the hysteric reaction of the American public to mask mandates I don't want to know what happens if the government tells people to shave. It sure does smell of politics but not from the CDCs side, they just have to make guidelines under consideration of how the public reacts Within 10 minutes you'd probably have discrimination claims from angry hipsters, barbershops and a dozen different religious groups or something.

dredmorbius 5y ago

The CDC have you covered: Facial Hairstyles and Filtering Facepiece Respirators https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/FacialHairWmask11282017-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/FacialHairWmask11282017...

nescioquid 5y ago

> The lack of CDC guidance on this point speaks volumes as to how serious this is. It speaks volumes, at least. Heckuva job, Brownie. I'm still flummoxed by Fauci's -- let's call it -- equivocation about masks being pointless, for which he later apologized and explained he was trying to conserve the supply of N95s for medical personnel. There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play. If they really believed it were that serious, I hardly trust they'd do any more than cover their assess.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
His boss at the time did have him on a leash.
tasha0663 5y ago
> There is certainly an admixture of manipulating the public to achieve a desired outcome (rather than leveling with the populace) and gross incompetence and callous indifference at play. When they decided they had to skip Xi variant, it was made pretty clear that the patricians have no intention of leveling with the plebs again.

jorblumesea 5y ago

It speaks to the politics of it more than the science.