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> Complete robbing of individual liberties in the name of the "collective good," but none of it is about being good towards your fellow neighbour, it is about b

by mgh2 5y ago

> Complete robbing of individual liberties in the name of the "collective good," but none of it is about being good towards your fellow neighbour, it is about being obedient to the State. Are you sure? Where do you think social security, public education, infrastructure, hospitals, parks, national defense, etc, come from? They were funded by the government with taxes. COVID relief? In authoritarian or corrupt states this is a concern. But for the US and many Western nations, the state is mostly a force for good American bias: you take for granted and don't appreciate what you have

sparkie 5y ago
> Are you sure of this? Where do you think retirement income comes from? Public schools, infrastructure, hospitals, parks, national defense, COVID relief, etc? They came from the government... I was referring to the social credit system, not just taxation. Social credit is an absolutely inhuman way of treating people. We are not slaves of a government. In regards to where income comes from: it comes from the tax-payer, not the government. The trouble is the tax-payer did not contribute to this of their own volition, but did so under duress because they were extorted by the government which threatens violence for non-compliance. If people deem the services you listed as ideal or necessary, they would of course, contribute to them without the need for force. How does a State become authoritarian, and what put these western states in the position they are in today? The answer is that the ancestors people of those states fought numerous violent rebellions against their slave-masters to obtain the freedoms that are enjoyed (in decreasing fashion) today. But what happens when a population becomes docile, or robbed of their ability to fight a rebellion against a corrupt government. What if the docile even encourage putting their fellow neighbour into such position of helplessness? Governments are not a force for good. They never have been in history. The only thing that keeps them on a good path is the ability of their populations to hold them accountable. If you remove that ability, you will soon find out that your government is not a force for good. Cambodians found that out after surrendering their arms. Australia is learning the hard lesson as we speak. I'm not American anyway, but America enjoys the most freedom in the world thanks to its thoughtful founders, who put some constraints on future governments. Today, these constraints are often ignored and you even have the docile calling for them to be abolished.
- mgh2 5y ago
  > If people deem the services you listed as ideal or necessary, they would of course, contribute to them without the need for force. You underestimate human nature, most people will be greedy and take advantage of their fellow beings if there is no central authority (accountable to the people) to enforce rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

by mgh2 5y ago

sparkie 5y ago

> Are you sure of this? Where do you think retirement income comes from? Public schools, infrastructure, hospitals, parks, national defense, COVID relief, etc? They came from the government... I was referring to the social credit system, not just taxation. Social credit is an absolutely inhuman way of treating people. We are not slaves of a government. In regards to where income comes from: it comes from the tax-payer, not the government. The trouble is the tax-payer did not contribute to this of their own volition, but did so under duress because they were extorted by the government which threatens violence for non-compliance. If people deem the services you listed as ideal or necessary, they would of course, contribute to them without the need for force. How does a State become authoritarian, and what put these western states in the position they are in today? The answer is that the ancestors people of those states fought numerous violent rebellions against their slave-masters to obtain the freedoms that are enjoyed (in decreasing fashion) today. But what happens when a population becomes docile, or robbed of their ability to fight a rebellion against a corrupt government. What if the docile even encourage putting their fellow neighbour into such position of helplessness? Governments are not a force for good. They never have been in history. The only thing that keeps them on a good path is the ability of their populations to hold them accountable. If you remove that ability, you will soon find out that your government is not a force for good. Cambodians found that out after surrendering their arms. Australia is learning the hard lesson as we speak. I'm not American anyway, but America enjoys the most freedom in the world thanks to its thoughtful founders, who put some constraints on future governments. Today, these constraints are often ignored and you even have the docile calling for them to be abolished.

mgh2 5y ago
> If people deem the services you listed as ideal or necessary, they would of course, contribute to them without the need for force. You underestimate human nature, most people will be greedy and take advantage of their fellow beings if there is no central authority (accountable to the people) to enforce rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons