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This is poetic, but if you break it down into a syllogism, it's clear that this is totally stupid. Removing the flowery language, here are the claims and suppo

This is poetic, but if you break it down into a syllogism, it's clear that this is totally stupid. Removing the flowery language, here are the claims and supporting arguments, along with my rebuttals. * Drinking alone helps you understand yourself better. - No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober. * Drinking alone lets you drink a lot of alcohol fast, in your preferred cocktail or beverage. - Yes and this is why it is dangerous. Drinking tasty alcohol fast is a great way to get addicted. Or at the very least damage your health, both short and long term. * Drinking alone provides you with comfortable silence. - Drinking has nothing to do with this. Alcohol is a non-sequitur. You have to orchestrate the silence regardless of whether alcohol is involved. That's it. It's just repeating these 3 points in different ways.

delusional 5y ago
This magazine or blog or whatever seems to either be an elaborate joke or bait or something: >Are you guys for real? >Yes. While there is some satire involved, we believe to the very core of our >souls every word we write. >Who are you? >We are a group of functional alcoholics based primarily in Denver, CO. Included in our ranks are published novelists, filmmakers, English gentlemen, barflies, punk rock musicians, comedians, outright dastards and admitted boozeheads. >Do you mind the word alcoholic? >No. We are taking it back from the fascists. Soon it will be considered a compliment.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  I’d just take them at their word they are functional alcoholics who formed a community around being alcoholics. If you think of it as a religion, maybe it makes more sense?
  - delusional 5y ago
    The "taking it back from the fascists" is just too much for me.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >This magazine or blog or whatever seems to either be an elaborate joke or bait or something Or you know, part of the once respected in some circles tradition of self-destruction with style, before everybody started jogging and going vegan to live to 100 years old as a "productive" boring member of society...
  - fuzzfactor 5y ago
    There's always lots of other industrial solvents that are even more toxic by the gram or even relatively few milligrams. OTOH real decadence has been more sustainable forever the less toxic it is.
  - felipemnoa 5y ago
    Being productive can be lots of fun. To each their own of course.
  - oconnor663 5y ago
    Before we came up with jogging there was church :)
    - tenpies 5y ago
      If anything, most of organized religion is about preparing to die. The complete opposite of our current materialism and obsession with keeping personal entropy at bay.
  - ruined 5y ago
    but alcohol is so pedestrian. and socially acceptable. this is somehow even more pathetic than being a weed guy. style would require an edgier, more risque substance, and a narrative. but you'll never see it. i think even tweakers know better than to spend energy justifying choices to strangers
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 5y ago
- totetsu 5y ago
  maybe its the inebriati https://youtu.be/VTSCppeFzX4 https://youtu.be/VTSCppeFzX4
- Spinnaker_ 5y ago
  I definitely used to think that way. It's the type of thing that is a lot of fun to be a part of, until it isn't anymore. It's a thrilling way to self identify, until it becomes your entire identity. I hope they all end up ok.
  - nefitty 5y ago
    I was sort of forced out of that identity by COVID lockdown and domestic imperatives. I used to be proud of how many cans I could pound in a session before I got kicked out of a bar. Now, if I or anyone else do that, it's a huge pain in the ass. I still don't trust people that have never been drunks, though. There's something about the forceful rejection of social norms involved in becoming an alcoholic that I find resonates with me. It's akin to the punk ethos. The problem definitely is when people mistake being a drunk dickhead with being punk.
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      > There's something about the forceful rejection of social norms involved in becoming an alcoholic that I find resonates with me. It's akin to the punk ethos. Funny. I've run into many more social norms that promote drinking while socializing, especially at universities and in tech.
      - nefitty 5y ago
        That makes sense! I never went to college and have never really been in "tech". Of my several dozen close friends, only one went to college and he definitely became markedly different than us as his studies went on.
    - rainonmoon 5y ago
      Drinking is so normative that not drinking became the punk ethos via the hardcore scene, straight edge etc. Two of the most punk guys alive (Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins) have been sober longer than some people in this thread have been alive. Getting blackout has more in common with hair metal so if your hero is Nikki Sixx, more power to you.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
Instead of drinking, all of these can be accomplished by taking a “spiritual retreat” for a weekend. It could be a trip into the woods, a religious retreat with other people, or a stay at a quiet hotel far from home. I’ve done all three. When I have to make the long drive to my parents for a mandatory family get together, I’ll book a hotel halfway to take time for myself. The idea is to get away from your normal environment and sit down with yourself. I usually bring my kindle and a notebook.
- coldtea 5y ago
  >Instead of drinking, all of these can be accomplished by taking a “spiritual retreat” for a weekend That's like saying to someone "instead of kinky BDSM you could accomplish the same by making sweet tender love". I don't think it works for everybody.
  - Taywee 5y ago
    I think the point is that many of the advantages cited in the article don't actually depend on alcohol, and others are really dangerous. It's akin to the BDSM analogy if there was an article about BDSM where points were "you spend close time with another person" or "you get to feel another person's genitals". I like getting drunk on my own once in a while, but I agree with the previous poster. The article is unconvincing. Nearly every point is something that doesn't need alcohol, something that is really questionable whether it's actually a good thing, or an opaque metaphor about a monkey. There are certainly advantages to drinking alone, but the article reads more like self-convincing rationalizations from an alcoholic, and fails to actually point out why alcohol is even necessary for most of this.
- dijonman2 5y ago
  Some people just like to get fucked up. Better not to judge
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    If bringing a 12-pack to keep you company helps with the stated goal, by all means, bring one. :) I have a prescription for benzos. I’ve used them a couple of times to help during a retreat. (And family gatherings…) But I found benzos to leave me much clearer-headed than alcohol and they don’t mess with my antidepressant.
beebmam 5y ago
Ethanol destroyed my brother's life and two of my best friends lives, and did serious harm to all of the lives they were connected to. It is a deeply selfish drug. I recommend that everyone never, ever touches it outside of ceremonial use.
newbie789 5y ago
> * Drinking alone helps you understand yourself better. - No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober. I don’t think that the fact that you disagree with a statement qualifies that statement as a syllogism. I read those three statements as being distinct (for example “preferred cocktail” is a different subject from “comfortable silence”) though I will concede that all three statements do share a general theme of “the author enjoys drinking alone.” However, discussing various reasons for enjoying something does not qualify a statement as a syllogism. While I also do not generally agree with the author, I’m not a big fan of “things I disagree with are Wrong in terms of fundamental logic. Anything I don’t like but Others do is wrong because those Others lack the fundamental Brain Power to Understand The World(tm) like me. To disagree with me is to commit an Aristotelian error of the highest order.” It’s honestly an incredibly depressing attitude to come across, and it’s pretty much universally held by people that spend a lot of energy being “Not Mad” at not getting invited to parties. Maybe you might feel differently about who is the arbiter of logic if you cracked open a nice beer?
coldtea 5y ago
>* Drinking alone helps you understand yourself better. - No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober.* This pre-assumes you can have a honest dialog with yourself sober.
- deepvibrations 5y ago
  If you can't, then i don't think alcohol is the solution here tbh.
  - d-yakovlev 5y ago
    Sure, it's not a solution in and of itself. It's useful to destabilize you from well-rehearsed thought patterns, though - and if you manage to hit the Ballmer Peak of soggy introspection, maybe you can manage to make some progress.
    - tasha0663 5y ago
      There are definitely times when something that seemed like inconsequential bullshit a few rounds deep was revealed to be just that upon reflection while sober. Unfortunately it's a fine line to walk.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
      This sounds like an opportunity to put the beer money towards a therapist for the same effect.
      - aidenn0 5y ago
        Booze is much cheaper.
taneq 5y ago
> No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober. I've had plenty of interesting insights into all sorts of things while inebriated that remained interesting and insightful long after I'd sobered up. Maybe this doesn't work for you but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.
spurgu 5y ago
You must be fun at parties.
jayd16 5y ago
I don't know if this is entirely fair. A drink can loosen you up and stop you from fixation. This *might lead to new introspection.
dilap 5y ago
I've definitely had realizations drinking alone. It's not a state you want to be in all the time, or even often, but it can be useful. It's sort of like a random jump in the mental search space to get out of local minima. (Though perhaps I could train myself mentally to be able to enter these more loose states w/o alcohol, and that would be even better?)
- acjohnson55 5y ago
  Alcohol isn't special in this regard. There are many ways to shake oneself out of their standard mental cycles. There are lots of other drugs, and there are also plenty of non-drug techniques and experiences.
  - dilap 5y ago
    Yes, very fair point. (Alcohol is very lindy, though!) Any non-drug techniques in particular you've had good experiences with?
    - acjohnson55 5y ago
      Guided meditation, hiking, hot yoga, intensely practicing music, watching challenging movies, skateboarding, scuba diving, and dance lessons come to mind.
sundvor 5y ago
Thanks. Alcohol is a poison and getting drunk has nothing to do with finding yourself. I wish people would quit romanticising addiction. I quit a bit over a year ago. Never properly addicted, but Australian culture has it so firmly embedded it's scary. I'm a better person for it, and I don't miss it. If I want to feel wasted the next day I'll do 120% in the garage gym. Under the bar I both find myself, experience euphoria afterwards, and retain the ability to be wrecked the next day should I choose to. But it'll be a good kind of wrecked, more likely.

delusional 5y ago

This magazine or blog or whatever seems to either be an elaborate joke or bait or something: >Are you guys for real? >Yes. While there is some satire involved, we believe to the very core of our >souls every word we write. >Who are you? >We are a group of functional alcoholics based primarily in Denver, CO. Included in our ranks are published novelists, filmmakers, English gentlemen, barflies, punk rock musicians, comedians, outright dastards and admitted boozeheads. >Do you mind the word alcoholic? >No. We are taking it back from the fascists. Soon it will be considered a compliment.

kayodelycaon 5y ago
I’d just take them at their word they are functional alcoholics who formed a community around being alcoholics. If you think of it as a religion, maybe it makes more sense?
- delusional 5y ago
  The "taking it back from the fascists" is just too much for me.
coldtea 5y ago
>This magazine or blog or whatever seems to either be an elaborate joke or bait or something Or you know, part of the once respected in some circles tradition of self-destruction with style, before everybody started jogging and going vegan to live to 100 years old as a "productive" boring member of society...
- fuzzfactor 5y ago
  There's always lots of other industrial solvents that are even more toxic by the gram or even relatively few milligrams. OTOH real decadence has been more sustainable forever the less toxic it is.
- felipemnoa 5y ago
  Being productive can be lots of fun. To each their own of course.
- oconnor663 5y ago
  Before we came up with jogging there was church :)
  - tenpies 5y ago
    If anything, most of organized religion is about preparing to die. The complete opposite of our current materialism and obsession with keeping personal entropy at bay.
- ruined 5y ago
  but alcohol is so pedestrian. and socially acceptable. this is somehow even more pathetic than being a weed guy. style would require an edgier, more risque substance, and a narrative. but you'll never see it. i think even tweakers know better than to spend energy justifying choices to strangers
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 5y ago
totetsu 5y ago
maybe its the inebriati https://youtu.be/VTSCppeFzX4 https://youtu.be/VTSCppeFzX4
Spinnaker_ 5y ago
I definitely used to think that way. It's the type of thing that is a lot of fun to be a part of, until it isn't anymore. It's a thrilling way to self identify, until it becomes your entire identity. I hope they all end up ok.
- nefitty 5y ago
  I was sort of forced out of that identity by COVID lockdown and domestic imperatives. I used to be proud of how many cans I could pound in a session before I got kicked out of a bar. Now, if I or anyone else do that, it's a huge pain in the ass. I still don't trust people that have never been drunks, though. There's something about the forceful rejection of social norms involved in becoming an alcoholic that I find resonates with me. It's akin to the punk ethos. The problem definitely is when people mistake being a drunk dickhead with being punk.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    > There's something about the forceful rejection of social norms involved in becoming an alcoholic that I find resonates with me. It's akin to the punk ethos. Funny. I've run into many more social norms that promote drinking while socializing, especially at universities and in tech.
    - nefitty 5y ago
      That makes sense! I never went to college and have never really been in "tech". Of my several dozen close friends, only one went to college and he definitely became markedly different than us as his studies went on.
  - rainonmoon 5y ago
    Drinking is so normative that not drinking became the punk ethos via the hardcore scene, straight edge etc. Two of the most punk guys alive (Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins) have been sober longer than some people in this thread have been alive. Getting blackout has more in common with hair metal so if your hero is Nikki Sixx, more power to you.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

Instead of drinking, all of these can be accomplished by taking a “spiritual retreat” for a weekend. It could be a trip into the woods, a religious retreat with other people, or a stay at a quiet hotel far from home. I’ve done all three. When I have to make the long drive to my parents for a mandatory family get together, I’ll book a hotel halfway to take time for myself. The idea is to get away from your normal environment and sit down with yourself. I usually bring my kindle and a notebook.

coldtea 5y ago
>Instead of drinking, all of these can be accomplished by taking a “spiritual retreat” for a weekend That's like saying to someone "instead of kinky BDSM you could accomplish the same by making sweet tender love". I don't think it works for everybody.
- Taywee 5y ago
  I think the point is that many of the advantages cited in the article don't actually depend on alcohol, and others are really dangerous. It's akin to the BDSM analogy if there was an article about BDSM where points were "you spend close time with another person" or "you get to feel another person's genitals". I like getting drunk on my own once in a while, but I agree with the previous poster. The article is unconvincing. Nearly every point is something that doesn't need alcohol, something that is really questionable whether it's actually a good thing, or an opaque metaphor about a monkey. There are certainly advantages to drinking alone, but the article reads more like self-convincing rationalizations from an alcoholic, and fails to actually point out why alcohol is even necessary for most of this.
dijonman2 5y ago
Some people just like to get fucked up. Better not to judge
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  If bringing a 12-pack to keep you company helps with the stated goal, by all means, bring one. :) I have a prescription for benzos. I’ve used them a couple of times to help during a retreat. (And family gatherings…) But I found benzos to leave me much clearer-headed than alcohol and they don’t mess with my antidepressant.

beebmam 5y ago

Ethanol destroyed my brother's life and two of my best friends lives, and did serious harm to all of the lives they were connected to. It is a deeply selfish drug. I recommend that everyone never, ever touches it outside of ceremonial use.

newbie789 5y ago

> * Drinking alone helps you understand yourself better. - No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober. I don’t think that the fact that you disagree with a statement qualifies that statement as a syllogism. I read those three statements as being distinct (for example “preferred cocktail” is a different subject from “comfortable silence”) though I will concede that all three statements do share a general theme of “the author enjoys drinking alone.” However, discussing various reasons for enjoying something does not qualify a statement as a syllogism. While I also do not generally agree with the author, I’m not a big fan of “things I disagree with are Wrong in terms of fundamental logic. Anything I don’t like but Others do is wrong because those Others lack the fundamental Brain Power to Understand The World(tm) like me. To disagree with me is to commit an Aristotelian error of the highest order.” It’s honestly an incredibly depressing attitude to come across, and it’s pretty much universally held by people that spend a lot of energy being “Not Mad” at not getting invited to parties. Maybe you might feel differently about who is the arbiter of logic if you cracked open a nice beer?

coldtea 5y ago

deepvibrations 5y ago
If you can't, then i don't think alcohol is the solution here tbh.
- d-yakovlev 5y ago
  Sure, it's not a solution in and of itself. It's useful to destabilize you from well-rehearsed thought patterns, though - and if you manage to hit the Ballmer Peak of soggy introspection, maybe you can manage to make some progress.
  - tasha0663 5y ago
    There are definitely times when something that seemed like inconsequential bullshit a few rounds deep was revealed to be just that upon reflection while sober. Unfortunately it's a fine line to walk.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    This sounds like an opportunity to put the beer money towards a therapist for the same effect.
    - aidenn0 5y ago
      Booze is much cheaper.

taneq 5y ago

> No it doesn't. It distracts you from that endeavor. If you sit at a table with no TV or phone and do nothing, you will have a significantly more interesting and honest dialog with yourself if you are sober. I've had plenty of interesting insights into all sorts of things while inebriated that remained interesting and insightful long after I'd sobered up. Maybe this doesn't work for you but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for anyone.

spurgu 5y ago

You must be fun at parties.

jayd16 5y ago

I don't know if this is entirely fair. A drink can loosen you up and stop you from fixation. This *might lead to new introspection.

dilap 5y ago

I've definitely had realizations drinking alone. It's not a state you want to be in all the time, or even often, but it can be useful. It's sort of like a random jump in the mental search space to get out of local minima. (Though perhaps I could train myself mentally to be able to enter these more loose states w/o alcohol, and that would be even better?)

acjohnson55 5y ago
Alcohol isn't special in this regard. There are many ways to shake oneself out of their standard mental cycles. There are lots of other drugs, and there are also plenty of non-drug techniques and experiences.
- dilap 5y ago
  Yes, very fair point. (Alcohol is very lindy, though!) Any non-drug techniques in particular you've had good experiences with?
  - acjohnson55 5y ago
    Guided meditation, hiking, hot yoga, intensely practicing music, watching challenging movies, skateboarding, scuba diving, and dance lessons come to mind.

sundvor 5y ago

Thanks. Alcohol is a poison and getting drunk has nothing to do with finding yourself. I wish people would quit romanticising addiction. I quit a bit over a year ago. Never properly addicted, but Australian culture has it so firmly embedded it's scary. I'm a better person for it, and I don't miss it. If I want to feel wasted the next day I'll do 120% in the garage gym. Under the bar I both find myself, experience euphoria afterwards, and retain the ability to be wrecked the next day should I choose to. But it'll be a good kind of wrecked, more likely.